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Thread: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

  1. #91
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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    I don't imagine that many Americans have lived in a socialist community. I have, and it wasn't a bit like that: it was very unselfish and decent, as I recall.
    A socialist community? I'm sure it was great. Try a socialist run country... there's a difference.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I don't entirely disagree with you here. I do think social mobility is more difficult now than in some periods of America's history, but I can't honestly defend fraud, waste and abuse in our entitlement programs. I would argue they need to be well designed and well policed, but I prefer having social safety nets to not, noting that such programs will always create some perverse incentives as a trade-off.

    Practically speaking, could our states realistically replace Medicare and Medicaid without completely overhauling our current system of government and raising local taxes considerably?
    the states WOULD have to raise taxes, but without the layers of federal bull****eacracy the federal tax burden would be significantly reduced and the resources would be much more directly managed and applied. It makes no sense to send 70 billion to the fed in taxes for the Dept of Ed for example, have them absorb 35 billion in operating costs, and then graciously return 35 billion back to the states. Medicare...medicade...we know they are being buried in fraud annually. Again...much easier to manage locally. I think if people saw their money and where it was actually going they would be more likely to vote and we would have much higher turnout at local elections than we do now (which is embarassingly low).

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    So what exactly is your alternative Maggie? No postal service, no Medicare, no Social Security, no Public School system? In your mind, what does the United State look like after we stomp out that evil socialistic policies?
    How about letting the private sector take over for the post office? How about not having explicit and rigidly enforced rules against competition from private enterprise? As to Medicare and Social Security? How about a Congress that either makes the program NOT hemmorage red ink or disbands it and starts over? Why have public schools? Give private schools the same advantages and let private enterprise teach our kids. It's working on a small scale. It works.

    I'm not saying any one of these programs is evil. I am pointing out that private enterprise can do 'em better.
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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You really need to stop posting this stuff, and I hope you're just being political here and don't actually believe what you're saying.
    Why??? Does the truth hurt?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I disagree. "Socialist policies" (like public parks, the post office, welfare, etc.) are available to all citizens who qualify whenever they qualify. A library, for example, is open to anyone who seeks knowledge, not just people who are too lazy or poor to buy books.

    You might say a social safety net is different than a library, but I'd argue that a social safety net, like a library, is there to serve anyone who needs it, even if they used to make millions. If you allow that people move through socio-economic classes as they move through life, you should be able to recognize that even someone who will one day be a CEO might today need to be caught in a social safety net.

    If people are using social safety nets for a lifetime, it could be a sign of their personal failings. Or it could be a sign that our socioeconomic classes are becoming entrenched. I think it's a mix of both, actually, based on macroeconomic data I've seen.
    As with all things... moderation is needed. I like libraries, I like the post office, I like that those who have fallen on hard times can be given a chance to get back what they lost or improve themselves. I don't like when things are taken to the extreme and the arguments for 99 weeks of unemployment are used, or those who game the system are allowed to do so. Just as there needs to be some social assistance, there also needs to be some independence and a need to be more self sufficient to balance it all out.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD
    How about letting the private sector take over for the post office?
    In part, they do. I pity the damned fool that ships a package through the USPS over FedEx.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    I don't imagine that many Americans have lived in a socialist community. I have, and it wasn't a bit like that: it was very unselfish and decent, as I recall.
    Jonestown was a socialist community.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    A Capitalist Utopia would be an environment where people CAN bust their ass and succeed. That still exists. But in the midst of a capitalist society, 47% arent contributing a penny to the fed 'revenues' and are draining the country of resources. Obviously we dont have a pure capitalist government and society. Regardless...we have a bunch of folks that spew on about 'real' socialism. Yet...they never live that model for some reason. They hate capitalism yet suck off their capitalist parents. They hate 'the banks' yet go to the banks for these massive student loans to give to their socialist evangelists at the Universites, then bitch that the banks have the audacity to want them to pay back their loans. Its always someone ELSE that should do what they believe.
    1) They aren't paying taxes because businesses aren't paying them high enough wages so they are able to pay taxes. If we raised the wages of these workers, they wouldn't have to be on the government teat.

    2) They don't hate capitalism. And they aren't even socialist. What they are is jobless. And they can't get jobs worth their education. Why? Because corporations don't want to pay for that.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    "We the people" is not "I the person."

    The gist I get from your Constitution is that working together will result in the greater good of society. The gist that I get from many here at DP is every man should be out for themselves. To me, it's not a reflection on the principles started by your forefathers.
    You're totally misinterpreting what, "we the people", means. It's means that We The People get to select our government. It in no way means that I have to give up half of my salary, so some deadbeat mother****er can sit on his ass and do nothing. It means that you have the liberty to succeed, or fail, based on your own ambitions and the government will not get in the way of your success, nor will the government aid in your failure.

    We The People don't want a socialist government. That was made obvious in the 2010 midterms.

    If you folks in Canada want more socialism, then that's great, go for it. Most folks in the States don't want that and we are rejecting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Former Soviet Union citizen confronts Socialists at an Occupy protest

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It in no way means that I have to give up half of my salary, so some deadbeat mother****er can sit on his ass and do nothing.
    Then I would protest less about the government providing welfare and protest more at corporations that are at a race to 0 when it comes to hiring people so they can earn wages for themselves.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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