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Thread: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Why would anyone choose to be liberal with money? It's only a recipe for bankruptcy.
    Haha. This is ridiculous. Here smart cookie. I'll give you a clue. If the Main Stream Media has a Liberal bias, and being Liberal is a recipe for bankruptcy, how the **** is there still a MSM? I'll wait until you put them together.
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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    WTH? Social conservatives are pro-choice, legalization of drugs, pro-gay marriage, against church and state, against school prayer, against creationism, etc. who want to cut taxes on the rich in order to balance the budget?

    Social conservatives are not liberal at all. You are just making stuff up.
    My bad. I should have said "conservatives that say they are social liberals but fiscally conservative". Those people are liberals......period. You can not be socially liberal and conservative on fiscal matters since liberal social issues utilize taxpayers monies. A true conservative believes tax dollars should not be used to advance social engineering, especially liberal engineering.

    FWIW - your definition of a social conservative is laughable.
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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Haha! So you've just excluded a large portion of conservatives in order to fit your definition of what a "conservative" is.
    Like I care. Unlike liberals that worship a "big tent" philosophy to validate their unsual political perspective, conservatives aren't dependent on group acceptance of their principles.......that is why they are conservative. This isn't real complex.
    I love the smell of burning moonbat in the morning.

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    Like I care. Unlike liberals that worship a "big tent" philosophy to validate their unsual political perspective, conservatives aren't dependent on group acceptance of their principles.......that is why they are conservative. This isn't real complex.
    The GOP used to be hailed as the Big Tent Party.
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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Children are not ACCIDENTS. Children are what can happen when two individuals make a choice to engage in a certain act. Even if those individuals are on birth control, using condoms, etc... I have a friend who just had her second child about 4 months ago; and almost 10 years after having her tubes tied. When FATE makes a decision, there are no ACCIDENTS.
    An unplanned pregnancy is colloquially termed an "accident." This misses my point entirely. People don't have pre-marital sex expecting to get pregnant. If having a kid is not enough of a deterrent, mandating marriage between the two people probably won't be either.
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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    This is why I think social conservatism is an oxymoron - it is essentially an appeal to a big and intrusive government to instill a certain brand of morality on everyone else through the use of force.
    It's only an oxymoron to people who don't know any better.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    My bad. I should have said "conservatives that say they are social liberals but fiscally conservative". Those people are liberals......period. You can not be socially liberal and conservative on fiscal matters since liberal social issues utilize taxpayers monies. A true conservative believes tax dollars should not be used to advance social engineering, especially liberal engineering.

    FWIW - your definition of a social conservative is laughable.
    On the contrary, a person can be fiscally conservative and be pro-choice, without expecting the government to actually pay for abortions, pro-SSM and gay rights, without expecting government to pay anything extra to homosexuals, anti-school prayer, which costs the government no money, anti-creationism, which costs the government no extra money, pro-drug legalization/decriminalization, which would likely bring in at least some new revenue to the government and cut down on enforcement of such laws, against the death penalty, which has been reported to cost more overall due to the appeals process involved, and pro-gun laws, which likely do bring in some money from people having to register their guns and/or pay for permits. I know one that almost certainly costs money is being pro-illegal immigration, which would be the only major one I can think of that actually would show a person to be less fiscally responsible for feeling that they should support this socially liberal policy, except for the fact that anti-illegal immigration costs a lot of money too. The two would have to be compared completely to see which is more.

    Now, many of the first things that I mentioned actually cost the government money when the conservative position is taken. Take SSM for example. At just the current time, defending DOMA is costing the taxpayers more than $1.5M, since this is just the amount that the House is paying the lawyer to defend DOMA. It does not even take into account how much it costs to actually run the trial, nor any trials before the current one plus those of different cases challenging the same law. Nor how much money over time the government is losing from not allowing same sex couples to be married. Not to mention the vast amount of money that those couples would be spending for weddings if they were allowed to legally marry. The federal budget office did a study that concluded that most likely same sex marriage would not cost the government any net money, and overall, it should actually be a small net fiscal advantage. Being for teaching creationism in schools would mean that schools would be required to teach any belief system's views on how the Earth/man was created. This would cost a lot of money for a long and extremely contradictory class about where we might have come from, despite lack of much evidence at all from those various religious viewpoints on this. Being pro-drug laws, especially those that criminalize drug use and/or simple possession, costs a ton of government money in enforcement and incarceration costs.

    Now, almost everyone on any side has issues that they side more with conservatives on and issues that they side more with liberals on, especially social issues, but even some fiscal issues. Overall, it would be better for everyone to stop using those labels at all, but at least as generalizations for what beliefs a person holds. Most people are going to fall somewhere in the middle. Political views are definitely more like a spectrum than either one side or the other.
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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It's only an oxymoron to people who don't know any better.
    Then tell me how using the government to curb gay marriage and curb gays from openly serving in the military, using government to force pregnancies, using the government to instill morality through a failed war on drugs, using the government to promote religion, and using the government to export Western values at the barrel of a gun is not an application of big government. Even a social conservative on this board was noble enough to admit that he subscribes to an authoritative platform.

    Social conservatives have dominated the Republican Party since Reagan and what have Republicans done since then? They expanded and bloated the government.

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiderivative View Post
    Then tell me how using the government to curb gay marriage and curb gays from openly serving in the military, using government to force pregnancies, using the government to instill morality through a failed war on drugs, using the government to promote religion, and using the government to export Western values at the barrel of a gun is not an application of big government. Even a social conservative on this board was noble enough to admit that he subscribes to an authoritative platform.

    Social conservatives have dominated the Republican Party since Reagan and what have Republicans done since then? They expanded and bloated the government.
    Conservatism does not mean one application consistently in all areas. It, like liberalism, can embrace seemingly contradictory notions to form a cohesive argument. Conservatism throughout, for instance, American history has held two different beliefs on size of government: big and small. In one way, the two are coherent in that it is typically an expression for maintenance of accountability of the individual's actions. Big government conservatives may embrace a much older conservative notion that if men were angels, government would not be needed. Further, being a social conservative may stand in the adherence of traditional moral values, through government action or not.

    And no, I would not be so confident in that description of the Republican party. Many times, the generalizations overlook important portions of a political party. In this case, it too does that.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-24-11 at 10:20 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It's only an oxymoron to people who don't know any better.
    Or people who think that conservatism has a singular definition.

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