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Thread: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

  1. #91
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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Very simple... If you return to a proper social order, then many of the ills that have created the financial crisis cease to exist.... The prison population goes down when you start executing violent offenders. Welfare, social security, unemployment, etc... all get washed off the books because there is no legitimate mandate for such government programs. Marriage and proper family management reduces the number of unwed mothers, single parent families, and the need for many other social services. I'm sure you can see where I'm going here.
    What is your conception of "proper social order," and how would you go about implementing it?

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Conservatism does not mean one application consistently in all areas. It, like liberalism, can embrace seemingly contradictory notions to form a cohesive argument. Conservatism throughout, for instance, American history has held two different beliefs on size of government: big and small. In one way, the two are coherent in that it is typically an expression for maintenance of accountability of the individual's actions. Big government conservatives may embrace a much older conservative notion that if men were angels, government would not be needed. Further, being a social conservative may stand in the adherence of traditional moral values, through government action or not.

    And no, I would not be so confident in that description of the Republican party. Many times, the generalizations overlook important portions of a political party. In this case, it too does that.
    There is some confusion happening here. I am talking about social conservatism, not Goldwater conservatism, not paleo-conservatism, not neo-conservatism, not movement conservatism, not RINO's, etc.

    Social conservatives, which started becoming a dominant force in the Republican Party during the Reagan years has a history of appealing to the federal government in order to pass and enforce their brand of morality onto the masses. In fact, the father of so-called modern day conservatism butted heads with the religious right faction (i.e social conservatives).

    "There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' "
    ~Barry Goldwater (1909-1998) US Senator (R-Arizona)
    Source: Congressional Record, September 16, 1981

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75
    Or people who think that conservatism has a singular definition.
    Again, I was referring to social conservatism, not conservatism in general. While there are different brands of conservatism, perhaps you can educate us on the many different brands of social conservatism.
    Last edited by Antiderivative; 10-24-11 at 11:54 PM.

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    An unplanned pregnancy is colloquially termed an "accident." This misses my point entirely. People don't have pre-marital sex expecting to get pregnant. If having a kid is not enough of a deterrent, mandating marriage between the two people probably won't be either.
    I tend to disagree. The same guy that a woman might just be stupid enough to have sex with she may well not like the idea of spending the next 19 years with. Since "accidents" (as you call them) DO happen, I think that very quickly you'd see a significant reduction in the level of casual sex in society. It wouldn't happen immediately, but it would make a difference pretty quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    What is your conception of "proper social order," and how would you go about implementing it?
    Imagine a combination of 12th Century Norman England and the stylized 1950's utopia of "Leave it to Beaver".

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The GOP used to be hailed as the Big Tent Party.
    RINO's liked the Big Tent theory, not conservatives.
    I love the smell of burning moonbat in the morning.

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    Like I care. Unlike liberals that worship a "big tent" philosophy to validate their unsual political perspective, conservatives aren't dependent on group acceptance of their principles.......that is why they are conservative. This isn't real complex.
    You're right, it's not complex, your definition of "conservative" is based solely on your personal definition. You are aware that Reagans "big tent" philosophy is the reason the Republican party actually became relevant again in politics right?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You are aware that Reagans "big tent" philosophy is the reason the Republican party actually became relevant again in politics right?
    Yes, and it's one of the reasons that those of us who are True Conservatives spit on his grave.

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Yes, and it's one of the reasons that those of us who are True Conservatives spit on his grave.
    I dunno dude....sounds like something ideologues typically say...Chinese Communists never thought the USSR ruling party were "true Communists". Conservative and Liberal are broad definitions. I can see if you were a small part of what makes up the conservative specturm but to say there's only one small definition of Conservatism I think is incorrect.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I dunno dude....sounds like something ideologues typically say...Chinese Communists never thought the USSR ruling party were "true Communists". Conservative and Liberal are broad definitions. I can see if you were a small part of what makes up the conservative specturm but to say there's only one small definition of Conservatism I think is incorrect.
    As an ideologue, I will take that as a compliment, ramen. I will agree that Liberal/Progressive is a broad political camp. In terms of real, big "C" Conservatism, I would greatly disagree. Conservatism is about preserving the way that things have been done for hundreds if not thousands of years. It's about a very simple Black v. White mentality. It's about the Status Quo. It's about taking care of yourself and to Hell with everyone else. It's not a difficult concept to wrap one's head around.

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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    As an ideologue, I will take that as a compliment, ramen. I will agree that Liberal/Progressive is a broad political camp. In terms of real, big "C" Conservatism, I would greatly disagree. Conservatism is about preserving the way that things have been done for hundreds if not thousands of years. It's about a very simple Black v. White mentality. It's about the Status Quo. It's about taking care of yourself and to Hell with everyone else. It's not a difficult concept to wrap one's head around.
    Wow, just wow.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
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    Re: 27% Say They’re Conservative On Both Fiscal and Social Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Wow, just wow.
    If you've been reading my posts since I joined in July, none of that should surpise you, Gina.

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