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Thread: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Did you just equate a peaceful protester standing on a sidewalk to potential robber seen with a gun???
    No, she just equated the situation of a police officer question a protestor with the situation of a police officer question a robber with a gun. Big difference.

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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    No, she just equated the situation of a police officer question a protestor with the situation of a police officer question a robber with a gun. Big difference.
    Exactly, there is no comparison.
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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Exactly, there is no comparison.
    No, you're still not getting it.

    I can compare a handshake I get from Mother Theresa to the handshake I get from Adolf Hitler, but I'm not saying that Mother Theresa is the same as Adolf Hitler.

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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Did you just equate a peaceful protester standing on a sidewalk to potential robber seen with a gun???
    I was actually thinking of the situation in which an individual had a license to open-carry - and an officer confronted him in a store thinking he was trying to rob the place. . .

    Same thing in both situations: the individual was questioned and the individual believe they knew their rights but - ultimately - the officer's interpretation of the situation matters more and when there's such a conflict it's up to a magistrate (etc) to make the decision whether charges will be filed or not.

    For Wolfe it would have been that she *had* a permit to protest - or the protest was permitted properly.

    It's not up to the individual to make the decision when confronted by the officers. It shouldn't matter whether we're talking about protesting or sleeping in the street.

    And per Wolf's situation - I can't tell if they obtained a permit at all (either her or the organizer of the protest), she isn't clear on that.

    But in my weapon comparison it's interesting that in one case you would find it acceptable for an officer to take an individual in and then let the magistrate decide whether the 'carry' was lawful or not - but for a protest you believe that, on good faith, the officer shouldn't care.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 10-26-11 at 08:29 AM.
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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Who determined it was an unlawful order?

    Are the cops part of the 1%, too?
    They are the muscle for the 1%, so yes they are virtually part of the 1%. Certainly above the unwashed masses.
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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Are you saying that non-violent civil disobedience nullifies the validity of a protest?
    Nice try, but he said peaceful, which equals non-violent.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    No, you're still not getting it.

    I can compare a handshake I get from Mother Theresa to the handshake I get from Adolf Hitler, but I'm not saying that Mother Theresa is the same as Adolf Hitler.
    Yeah sure, that makes a lot of sense................
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I was actually thinking of the situation in which an individual had a license to open-carry - and an officer confronted him in a store thinking he was trying to rob the place. . .

    Same thing in both situations: the individual was questioned and the individual believe they knew their rights but - ultimately - the officer's interpretation of the situation matters more and when there's such a conflict it's up to a magistrate (etc) to make the decision whether charges will be filed or not.

    For Wolfe it would have been that she *had* a permit to protest - or the protest was permitted properly.

    It's not up to the individual to make the decision when confronted by the officers. It shouldn't matter whether we're talking about protesting or sleeping in the street.

    And per Wolf's situation - I can't tell if they obtained a permit at all (either her or the organizer of the protest), she isn't clear on that.

    But in my weapon comparison it's interesting that in one case you would find it acceptable for an officer to take an individual in and then let the magistrate decide whether the 'carry' was lawful or not - but for a protest you believe that, on good faith, the officer shouldn't care.

    I still don't see how you can compare one unarmed non-violent person with another person carrying deadly force.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I still don't see how you can compare one unarmed non-violent person with another person carrying deadly force.
    You are the only person comparing an unarmed non-violent person with a person carry deadly force.

    The only comparison we are trying to make is between two situations with dissimilar actors.

    How about some symbology:

    A police officer sees Person A doing Action X. Action X could be both legal or illegal. The Police officer makes a judgement call that Action X, in this context, is illegal, and arrests person A. Whether or not Person A's doing of Action X is legal or illegal is irrelevant. What matters is that Action X could be both legal or illegal, and that the police officer must make a judgement call. It's not the police officer's job to make the right judgement call. It's the police officer's job to make the best judgement call. It is then up to the courts to make the right judgement.

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    Re: Naomi Wolf explains our constitutional right to peaceful assembly

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I still don't see how you can compare one unarmed non-violent person with another person carrying deadly force.
    I'm comparing the declaration of "I have a right to do this" - not the event itself.

    We could be discussing countless other scenarios: They could be coloring on a sidewalk or having sex in their bed - doesn't matter. It's not the act - it's the issue of "who has the authority to declare whether said activity is right or wrong"

    If I write it without any "act" or specific event being discussed will it make more sense:

    Officer sees individual in the middle of an act.
    The individual believes they have the right to do said act and tell this to the officer.
    The officer believes they do not have the right to do said act.

    So - it's one person's view against the other - who has the authority to settle this conflict? What should be done?

    What should be done is that the officer takes the individual to the precinct - and the report is processed and a magistrate (an uninvolved third party) makes the ultimate decision.

    If there was no wrong done there are no charges filed and the individual is released.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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