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Thread: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That's a good point. Is he saying this for posterity? Carnegie would say the same sort of things then his right hand man would break heads during labor strikes. It's possible. I'd like to think there are decent people out there instead of always having an ulterior motive.
    I believe he means it. It is a factual point. I'm just not so sure that he would speak out for it if he thought it would actually happen.

    I agree with this but frankly there's decades of BS floating around to dispel. I always feel that when times are good, people don't really care about politics (in general). When times are bad, like now, is when people start asking questions and expect answers.
    Yep.

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I don't recall the lie about his taxes.
    Its been posted twice in this thread, but read the AP, MSNBC, HuPo, or any other liberal leaning site and they will all put lie to his claim that he or any rich person pays less than his secretary in either overall taxes or percentages. Buffet dissembled...he told a lie. He pays less than his secretary on his WAGES. His investment income, corporate taxes and hedge fund income is all counted and taxed differently. 'I' pay more than Buffet on my 'wages' because I make more than he does in wage salary. He however makes at least 6.2 million times more than I make in wages in investment income, on which he pays considerably more (except where he hires teams of accountants, all who make considerably more than me I sure) to find loopholes so he doesnt have to pay those taxes that he states he 'should' have to pay...theres the lie, and theres the hypocrisy.

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its been posted twice in this thread, but read the AP, MSNBC, HuPo, or any other liberal leaning site and they will all put lie to his claim that he or any rich person pays less than his secretary in either overall taxes or percentages. Buffet dissembled...he told a lie. He pays less than his secretary on his WAGES. His investment income, corporate taxes and hedge fund income is all counted and taxed differently. 'I' pay more than Buffet on my 'wages' because I make more than he does in wage salary. He however makes at least 6.2 million times more than I make in wages in investment income, on which he pays considerably more (except where he hires teams of accountants, all who make considerably more than me I sure) to find loopholes so he doesnt have to pay those taxes that he states he 'should' have to pay...theres the lie, and theres the hypocrisy.
    Buffett made a generalized statement, not a position paper. He had a basic point that because most of his income is Captial Gains, it's taxed at a lower rate than the income his secretary makes.

    If you want to break that arguement down into exacts, you can argue that he wasn't completely precise but he was not trying to be.

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I don't see why the two can't be separate issues.

    Are corporations structurally greedy and hold maximization of shareholder wealth as their top priority? Of course. Does that make them bad people? I would argue no, people with my leaning may disagree.

    When his own wealth which he is solely responsible for is in question, he's already donating vritually everything to charity on his death and is willing to pay much higher taxes.

    Don't get me wrong, I see why the right wants to smear his character. The guy is a brilliant capitalist, the JP Morgan of generation. The guy lives according to real conservative values, he's not flashy, has the same house since the 70's drives the same car for over a decade. Invests based on real conservative fundamentals. If he wasn't saying this people would point to him as WHY America is great. When his views fly in the face of conservative ideology you want to silence him or ignore his point.
    This is simply not true. The problem I have is his convenient use of 'facts' (when pretty much anyone else cherry picks 'facts' to prove a point we call them LIARS) and his blatant hypocisy. If he BELIEVES what he is saying then he should be DOING it. He CAN be doing it. He ISNT doing it. That old line about integrity meaning you do the 'right' thing ALL the time...not just when someone is watching, when you are forced to, or when you get caught comes into play.
    Last edited by VanceMack; 10-13-11 at 11:54 AM.

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Buffett made a generalized statement, not a position paper. He had a basic point that because most of his income is Captial Gains, it's taxed at a lower rate than the income his secretary makes.

    If you want to break that arguement down into exacts, you can argue that he wasn't completely precise but he was not trying to be.
    You can argue that...especially when you are defending his position because you agree with it. His generalized statement is a lie. He does not pay less than his secretary in amount or percentage of his total accumulated income. He used a small piece of HIS income to compare to her total income and made a false statement...on which the 'Buffet Rule' has been built. Convenient.

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If he BELIEVES what he is saying then he should be DOING it.
    It's called competition. It is how capitalism works. You don't give up a competitive edge unless everyone loses the edge.

    How stupid would it be for a company to try to be the only one to do the right thing if it meant the company would go bankrupt and other companies that were not doing the right thing stepped up and took its spot in the market? In order for a company to do the right thing, sometimes it has to do wrong thing until the system can be changed and everyone is required to do the right thing. That is one of the cold realities of a capitalistic market. It doesn't reward doing the right thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    It's called competition. It is how capitalism works. You don't give up a competitive edge unless everyone loses the edge.

    How stupid would it be for a company to try to be the only one to do the right thing if it meant the company would go bankrupt and other companies that were not doing the right thing stepped up and took its spot in the market? In order for a company to do the right thing, sometimes it has to do wrong thing until the system can be changed and everyone is required to do the right thing. That is one of the cold realities of a capitalistic market. It doesn't reward doing the right thing.
    Wait...you are saying doing what Warren Buffet says is the 'right thing' would bankrupt the company? Why...then by golly we should be RUSHING to embrace his plan shouldnt we?

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    This is simply not true. The problem I have is his convenient use of 'facts' (when pretty much anyone else cherry picks 'facts' to prove a point we call them LIARS) and his blatant hypocisy. If he BELIEVES what he is saying then he should be DOING it. He CAN be doing it. He ISNT doing it. That old line about integrity meaning you do the 'right' thing ALL the time...not just when someone is watching, when you are forced to, or when you get caught comes into play.
    What in regards to his own tax rates or his company? I've explained my views on his company. As far as his compensation...he's received compansation in it's present form since the 70's when it was taxed heavily. He's always wanted his personal wealth to be based on the value added to his shareholders...he did it before it was cool.

    Your argument is wrong because his point is that "elites" and wealthy in this country owe this country. He spoke out against a policy he disagrees with. Conservatives are grasping at straws and trying to discredit the man. Does hypocrisy matter? Yes. Does that fact that he doesn't change his whole mode of compensation that he instituted based on his principles make him a hypocrite? No. Does writing a check to the Treasury above the amount he owe change policy he disagrees with? No. You guys just want him to shut up, plain and simple.
    “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
    *Adam Smith*

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud South Korean View Post
    What if those interests conflict?
    I don't think they conflict. He's mentioned the fact he thinks personal capital gains taxes should be higher. That the individuals should pay more in taxes if they are wealthy.

    As a CEO he's worried about corporate profits and getting a return to investors.
    “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
    *Adam Smith*

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    re: Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway Owes Taxes Going Back To 2002 [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Wait...you are saying doing what Warren Buffet says is the 'right thing' would bankrupt the company? Why...then by golly we should be RUSHING to embrace his plan shouldnt we?
    Sigh...

    Yes, sometimes the right thing would bankrupt a company, or allow it to be taken over by other companies. For example, if everyone sold toys made by child slave labor and I tried to suddenly start selling toys that were not made by child slave labor but cost 5 times as much, then I would probably go bankrupt or my company would be taken over by a company that did use child slave labor. Before I could stop selling toys made by child slave labor, I would have get laws passed so that nobody could sell toys made by child slave labor so that competitive advantage no longer existed for anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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