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Thread: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

  1. #71
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's how we get "free speech" zones, which are horse****. America is a free speech zone.
    Your rights end when they limit the rights of others. You can speak freely, but if you're disrupting business by using speakers and megaphones that cancel out business conversations then you can and will be arrested. If you run around naked on a school play ground in protest of wearing animal products you can and will be arrested. If you access an area that is legally deemed off-limits in order to protest then you can and will be arrested. The idea that we're going to start screaming about rights being stripped away because the cops asked protesters to move 100 yards away and get off legally restricted land is ridiculous.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I personally display absolutely NO respect for ANYONE who cannot abide by the law, Joe. If these bums (that's about the nicest thing I can call them) actually had permits, I'd just think they were idiots. Their unwillingness to even go through the process makes them criminals in my mind, and I have no place in my heart, nor do I believe there is a place in society for criminals.

    I'm not here to "win rational people to my cause". I never have been. The cause stands for itself, you either agree or you don't. Just realize that there are only two types of people in this world.... Allies and Enemies. If you aren't the first, you're automatically the second.
    Permit to protest.... Do you know how wrong that sounds? Seems like it should be in a Monty Python skit.
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I personally display absolutely NO respect for ANYONE who cannot abide by the law, Joe. If these bums (that's about the nicest thing I can call them) actually had permits, I'd just think they were idiots. Their unwillingness to even go through the process makes them criminals in my mind, and I have no place in my heart, nor do I believe there is a place in society for criminals.

    I'm not here to "win rational people to my cause". I never have been. The cause stands for itself, you either agree or you don't. Just realize that there are only two types of people in this world.... Allies and Enemies. If you aren't the first, you're automatically the second.
    I don't share your world view. I don't see us as allies and enemies, though the temptation is there at times.

    As for the permits, I see no reason it shouldn't be at the discretion of the local community. It's appropriate for cities to facilitate peaceful protest as much as possible.

  4. #74
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Your rights end when they limit the rights of others. You can speak freely, but if you're disrupting business by using speakers and megaphones that cancel out business conversations then you can and will be arrested. If you run around naked on a school play ground in protest of wearing animal products you can and will be arrested. If you access an area that is legally deemed off-limits in order to protest then you can and will be arrested. The idea that we're going to start screaming about rights being stripped away because the cops asked protesters to move 100 yards away and get off legally restricted land is ridiculous.
    No, this is how we get "protest zones". We already have "free speech" zones which are bull****. As I said, America is a free speech zone. But now the authority gets to tell people when and where they can exercise their rights, and thus can push them off to the side. Which is EXACTLY what they do at things like the RNC and DNC conventions. Push the protesters blocks and blocks away so the press doesn't have to cover them, so the politicians don't have to see it. It's incredibly destructive to our rights and our ability to keep hold of the government such that we may preserve the Republic.

    Big government is never good, it is always harmful to our rights. If there is no way to limit what the government can call "legally restricted land", then it IS a stripping of our rights.
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    GhostlyJoe, when coppers are trying to manage 7,000 people, they don't wait for it to turn ugly. They must keep control. Or they're dead. When demonstrators refuse to move and resist arrest, they're lucky if all that happens is they get pushed down.

    As for trusting coppers, I don't trust 'em necessarily....but I do respect them and sure do obey their direction. I'll argue in the courtroom, not on the street.
    Happens at football stadiums every Sunday with gatherings of tens of thousands. There's even drunken fistfights, arrests and uncouth behavior. But there's rarely an issue with overall control.

    If these protesters were using physical force, they would be charged as such: assault, battery, etc. As I understand it, almost all the arrests have been for non-violent behavior. It's not fair to simply assume violence will take place. What indication is there that the police are in danger?

    I obey the police as well. I teach my kids to obey and respect the police. I've never been arrested, but I've been close to people who have, and its given me a healthy distrust for the system. And when my kids get older and can understand society with greater complexity, I'll warn them about the potential for abuse by the justice system.
    Last edited by GhostlyJoe; 10-11-11 at 02:32 PM.

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Permit to protest.... Do you know how wrong that sounds? Seems like it should be in a Monty Python skit.
    I concur. Though I'm against all sorts of permits, even those for firearms.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I don't share your world view. I don't see us as allies and enemies, though the temptation is there at times.
    That's fine. We can disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    As for the permits, I see no reason it shouldn't be at the discretion of the local community. It's appropriate for cities to facilitate peaceful protest as much as possible.
    The problem comes when the local community refuses to require these individuals to conform to any level of decency. Yesterday, these people caused a MASSIVE traffic issue in the North End of Boston. They paraded (again without permit) through the STREETS (not sidewalks) in an area that already was having traffic issues due to a hockey game and a bridge which is closed for the filming of a motion picture. Not only didn't the cops arrest them, they ASSISTED this action for the most part. The Mayor of Boston, Thomas Menino is on these people's side. Personally, I'd have run the protestors down, but that apparently didn't dawn on anyone in Boston.

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I never got the "if this were us, it would be so much worse" argument. First, its a narrative wholly divorced from reality, as it isn't an anti-abortion rally, so your hypothesis is untestable. Then, you act outraged at this made-up transgression. It's a common rhetorical tactic, but it's so cheap.

    When you revel in the hypocrisy of the worst of your opponents -- especially the ones your just conjured out of your own imagination, you just highlight your own hypocrisy. Conservatives who applaud the tea party and decry these people en mass are equally guilty as your hypocritical liberals.
    whatever, I've seen it happen.
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    That's fine. We can disagree.



    The problem comes when the local community refuses to require these individuals to conform to any level of decency. Yesterday, these people caused a MASSIVE traffic issue in the North End of Boston. They paraded (again without permit) through the STREETS (not sidewalks) in an area that already was having traffic issues due to a hockey game and a bridge which is closed for the filming of a motion picture. Not only didn't the cops arrest them, they ASSISTED this action for the most part. The Mayor of Boston, Thomas Menino is on these people's side. Personally, I'd have run the protestors down, but that apparently didn't dawn on anyone in Boston.
    Let me make myself clear. I don't think it's inappropriate to arrest people on misdemeanor charges if they're breaking the law and preventing others from going about their business. but I do think it's appropriate to tolerate or even assist the protesters as much as possible. As for running people down ... yeah, that would be murder.

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    whatever, I've seen it happen.
    To be fair, I don't doubt you could find plenty of examples liberals being hypocrites.

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