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Thread: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the really sad thing is, if these had been abortion protestors, or a KKK rally or an anti-gay protest most of these same people would have no problem with what the cops did. they are just squealing "right to assemble" because they happen to agree with the POV of these particular protestors.
    I think this is wrong and dishonest. I, for one, would argue for anyone's right to assemble and protest. From Westboro to Occupy Wallstreet.
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the really sad thing is, if these had been abortion protestors, or a KKK rally or an anti-gay protest most of these same people would have no problem with what the cops did. they are just squealing "right to assemble" because they happen to agree with the POV of these particular protestors.
    That reminds me.

    Protest and police powers
    Police have a duty to provide protection and assistance for peaceful protests, but they must balance that with an obligation to preserve the peace, uphold the law and prevent crime. Individual chief police officers decide how to handle each protest in their area.

    Violent activity cannot be regarded as a legitimate form of protest, and the police have the legal right to arrest and charge those who commit acts of violence during protests.

    Police have many legal powers that can be used to prevent violence or unrest associated with protest. They can, for example, impose limitations on the route of the march, or the location and duration of a rally.

    They will only do that in order to prevent:

    •riots or other serious public disorder
    •damage to property
    •serious disruption to the life of the community
    Police might also conduct ‘stop and search’ operations around a protest, but they must do so for a specific reason. Because of this, if they stop and search you, they must always specify on what legal grounds they are doing it.

    Anti-social behaviour rules and dispersal orders can also be used to break up violent or unlawful protests.

    A sit-down protest or a blockade – even a peaceful one – can be stopped if it blocks road traffic or public walkways. Any racist chants or threats of violence – even in an otherwise peaceful protest – are not acceptable, and those involved could be arrested and charged.
    Also this:

    The Supreme Court upheld a state law Wednesday requiring anti-abortion demonstrators to stay at least 8 feet away from anyone entering or leaving medical facilities.

    The justices, by a 6-3 vote, declared that the Colorado law designed to protect the privacy rights of patients and staff members at the clinics did not violate the constitutional free-speech rights of the protesters.

    Justice John Paul Stevens wrote for the court in Hill v. Colorado that the law's restrictions on speech-related conduct were constitutional, and states have a special justification to avoid potential confrontations causing trauma to patients at health care facilities.
    So basically, violating existing laws in order to peacefully assemble is not protected by the existence of that right. And laws can be drafted in regards to peaceful assembly and protest so long as those laws do not remove the right altogether (and laws regarding locale are clearly within constitutional limitations).
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by conservativeguy View Post
    I'll tell what is sad. When people think it's cool to break the law, threaten underpaid police officers and then whine about the perps getting a bruise on their ass after being shoved to the ground for inciting a riot.
    the irony of reading the words of somebody on the right complain about "underpaid police officers" is sweet indeed.
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the really sad thing is, if these had been abortion protestors, or a KKK rally or an anti-gay protest most of these same people would have no problem with what the cops did. they are just squealing "right to assemble" because they happen to agree with the POV of these particular protestors.
    I never got the "if this were us, it would be so much worse" argument. First, its a narrative wholly divorced from reality, as it isn't an anti-abortion rally, so your hypothesis is untestable. Then, you act outraged at this made-up transgression. It's a common rhetorical tactic, but it's so cheap.

    When you revel in the hypocrisy of the worst of your opponents -- especially the ones your just conjured out of your own imagination, you just highlight your own hypocrisy. Conservatives who applaud the tea party and decry these people en mass are equally guilty as your hypocritical liberals.
    Last edited by GhostlyJoe; 10-11-11 at 02:11 PM.

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    the irony of reading the words of somebody on the right complain about "underpaid police officers" is sweet indeed.
    But your generalization and stereotyping of the right is completely expected.

    Many of us on the right don't lament public servants receiving higher pay. We lament the wasteful spending on administrative pay and red-tape bull**** that eats up so much of the money allotted to these services. We challenge the idea that you have to cut civil servants when the budget is constricted instead of cutting pay 5% for administrative officials, or cutting back bonus for administative officials, or removing one or two days of vacation, or any other solution. Demanding cuts in budget =/= demanding cuts in pay for civil servants. Immediately running to the accusation is just a political game.
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    But your generalization and stereotyping of the right is completely expected.

    Many of us on the right don't lament public servants receiving higher pay. We lament the wasteful spending on administrative pay and red-tape bull**** that eats up so much of the money allotted to these services. We challenge the idea that you have to cut civil servants when the budget is constricted instead of cutting pay 5% for administrative officials, or cutting back bonus for administative officials, or removing one or two days of vacation, or any other solution. Demanding cuts in budget =/= demanding cuts in pay for civil servants. Immediately running to the accusation is just a political game.
    thank you for clarifying that. please not that I did NOT indict all persons on the right - just this particular somebody.
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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    You know, I try to be an fairly even-handed guy, give people the benefit of the doubt and take them at their word. I can't believe the derision some conservatives are casting on these protesters: Scum, wastes of oxygen, filth, sleaze ...

    You display precious little respect for your fellow Americans, and you act like children with your fingers in your ears. Do you think you're winning rational people to your cause?
    I personally display absolutely NO respect for ANYONE who cannot abide by the law, Joe. If these bums (that's about the nicest thing I can call them) actually had permits, I'd just think they were idiots. Their unwillingness to even go through the process makes them criminals in my mind, and I have no place in my heart, nor do I believe there is a place in society for criminals.

    I'm not here to "win rational people to my cause". I never have been. The cause stands for itself, you either agree or you don't. Just realize that there are only two types of people in this world.... Allies and Enemies. If you aren't the first, you're automatically the second.

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Ya'll are arguing a losing battle with those who think the protesters did no wrong.

    There are always fools who think they can be whereever they want to be -- say whatever they want to say -- and do whatever they want to do. All in the name of their right of assembly. I, for one, am glad for coppers who teach them the error of their ways. The police showed restraint...gave calm warnings...and were disregarded.

    These young people (and apparently some older ones, two) need to grow up....or, failing that, to accept the consequences of their actions. This demonstration has the real possibility of turning ugly. Too bad...so sad.
    I think you're being prejudicial. Physical force is appropriate when things actually do turn ugly, not when you presume they will. It's the ones using physical force who must defend the necessity of it. You can't just assume a threat that may not exist.

    I also would caution you not to be overly trusting of the police. Your naivete could cost you someday.

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So basically, violating existing laws in order to peacefully assemble is not protected by the existence of that right. And laws can be drafted in regards to peaceful assembly and protest so long as those laws do not remove the right altogether (and laws regarding locale are clearly within constitutional limitations).
    That's how we get "free speech" zones, which are horse****. America is a free speech zone.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Police beat war veterans in assault on Occupy Boston

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I think you're being prejudicial. Physical force is appropriate when things actually do turn ugly, not when you presume they will. It's the ones using physical force who must defend the necessity of it. You can't just assume a threat that may not exist.

    I also would caution you not to be overly trusting of the police. Your naivete could cost you someday.
    GhostlyJoe, when coppers are trying to manage 7,000 people, they don't wait for it to turn ugly. They must keep control. Or they're dead. When demonstrators refuse to move and resist arrest, they're lucky if all that happens is they get pushed down.

    As for trusting coppers, I don't trust 'em necessarily....but I do respect them and sure do obey their direction. I'll argue in the courtroom, not on the street.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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