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Iran says could deploy navy near U.S. coast: report

So several of you are saying you would not have a problem with attacking Iran's naval vessels in international waters without provocation? If so, would you have a problem with Iran doing the same to a US naval vessel off their coast? If the answers are different, then please explain your reason for feeling this way.
 
So several of you are saying you would not have a problem with attacking Iran's naval vessels in international waters without provocation? If so, would you have a problem with Iran doing the same to a US naval vessel off their coast? If the answers are different, then please explain your reason for feeling this way.

Sure, destroy Iran's navy, it can't project force, and life goes on, destroy part of Americas navy, and there'll be bombs raining from the sky over Iran. To sink Iran's navy would cost less lives, and so is preferable.
 
I strongly doubt it is an intimidation tactic, but more of a thumbing the nose type one
 
Uhhh... Spuds your postulation assumes there will be provocation (something several posters have pointed out would be suicide for Iran) ---- no provocation from Iran... no attack from the US... no loss of life on either side.
 
oh.......please...pleaase send your ships close to the coast of New York City!!

that would be an awesome fireworks show as we annihilate their Navy.

Now, who really believes that Obama would do anything, if Iran was actually stupid enough to pull this crap?

I can hear it, now:

"But...but...but...they're in international waters"

"They have the right to sail anywhere they want, as long as they're in international waters"

"What we need at this point is some strong diplomacy"
 
So several of you are saying you would not have a problem with attacking Iran's naval vessels in international waters without provocation?

Without provocation? No, that would NOT be acceptable. The USN wouldn't do it. Despite constant accusations of "mindless American aggression," the USN should not and would not attack without provocation. If the Iranian Navy wants "cruise" outside the international limit, they are free to enjoy the cooler waters. I would hope they bring along an extra store of shwarma and pehaps some baklava. We could send the Coast Guard out to trade pizza and apple pie for it.

If so, would you have a problem with Iran doing the same to a US naval vessel off their coast? If the answers are different, then please explain your reason for feeling this way.

No, it wouldn't. But why would Iran want to get their ships sunk? We sent one of their very few frigates (the same class they might send to US waters) to Davey Jones in 1988. The IRIN would be better off "glaring menacingly" at the USN warships, from the safety of their home port..
 
Uhhh... Spuds your postulation assumes there will be provocation (something several posters have pointed out would be suicide for Iran) ---- no provocation from Iran... no attack from the US... no loss of life on either side.

Well, my post really is that if an altercation were to happen, it would be a much better outcome were the US to sink Iranian ships than Iran to sink US ships. My preferred outcome is no-one sinks anyone.
 
Well, my post really is that if an altercation were to happen, it would be a much better outcome were the US to sink Iranian ships than Iran to sink US ships. My preferred outcome is no-one sinks anyone.
Hand shake smiley.jpgSounds like we agree. I would have no problem with sinking their ship(s) if there was provocation.
 
To all those saying that we would blow up their navy, for what?? Hanging out in international waters ?

I think they were showing the hypocrisy of how the US is always floating around off the coast of Iran.


Hypocrisy? I think we should blow up the Iranian "Navy" while they are sitting in port, today. Just for talking smack. Who gives a flying frack about "hypocrisy", to accept that you have to first accept moral equivalence, and there is no fracking moral equivalence between us.

We are America, and we don't think we're the best... we m*********ing know it.



:july_4th:
 
Well, my post really is that if an altercation were to happen, it would be a much better outcome were the US to sink Iranian ships than Iran to sink US ships. My preferred outcome is no-one sinks anyone.


Sink'em anyway.


Just because.

Then say: "THAT was for nothin'. Now imagine if you actually DID anything to piss us off...."
 
You know what? I say, Iran - if you want to park your ships off the coast of the U.S. in international waters go for it.

Just don't **** up and get nervous when the U.S. Navy jams every signal, every bit of your radar and is shadowing your every move. Also, there's no need to get nervous when we do fly by's, and park our destroyers and frigates as well as an aircraft carrier within a few minutes strike distance to turn your navy into small bits of shrapnel. Whatever you do, don't get jumpy when there are multiple attack submarines tailing you without your knowledge both to and from Iran's waters, and don't be frightened with the Sixth Fleet parks itself off the coast of Iran in kind.

Have a great time sailing to the United States! :2wave:
 
Behind the Iranian theocratic regime of apocalyptic twelvers are 70 mln people. They're 25 yrs on average, and they don't need this crap. While our internet heroes go to sleep, their nightmare goes on.

You don't have to take it serious, you can accept the fact they use the US as a scapegoat. As soon as the US is followed by the next super power, they'll have to protect the straits of Hormuz. Maybe in years to come, I get to hear the ayatollah whine about China in his weekly sermons.
 
You know what? I say, Iran - if you want to park your ships off the coast of the U.S. in international waters go for it.

Just don't **** up and get nervous when the U.S. Navy jams every signal, every bit of your radar and is shadowing your every move. Also, there's no need to get nervous when we do fly by's, and park our destroyers and frigates as well as an aircraft carrier within a few minutes strike distance to turn your navy into small bits of shrapnel. Whatever you do, don't get jumpy when there are multiple attack submarines tailing you without your knowledge both to and from Iran's waters, and don't be frightened with the Sixth Fleet parks itself off the coast of Iran in kind.

Have a great time sailing to the United States! :2wave:

Double thanks. I competely agree. Why it'll even give our boys a chance for some interesting and fun war games!!
 
yes, and they are stretched exceedingly thin - and facing deep cuts if the "super committee" doesn't pull off a friggin political miracle.


the point here isn't that Iran could take on and defeat the US in an offensive naval war; but rather to point out that the US Navy is historically weak at the moment, and likely to only get more so in the near future.

The US Navy is the strongest Navy in the world, and not only within the world but also in history. Yes the total number of ships was exceeded in times past, but you should know that total numbers are meaningless especially when talking about these kind of wars and navies. There is nothing historically low about the US Navy, don't try to play people into fear.
 
The US Navy is the strongest Navy in the world, and not only within the world but also in history. Yes the total number of ships was exceeded in times past, but you should know that total numbers are meaningless especially when talking about these kind of wars and navies. There is nothing historically low about the US Navy, don't try to play people into fear.

He was not trying to play into anyones fear...he was merely stating a fact wiseone...he said in his post..quote

The point here isn't that Iran could take on and defeat the US in an offensive naval war; but rather to point out that the US Navy is historically weak at the moment, and likely to only get more so in the near future.

He stated clearly the USA didnt have to worry about iran...and the navy has suffered being shortchanged with so many resources going to ground troops in theatre.
Trust that CPwill would never denigrate the USA or its armed services...hes an active duty marine..:)
 
He was not trying to play into anyones fear...he was merely stating a fact wiseone...he said in his post..quote

The point here isn't that Iran could take on and defeat the US in an offensive naval war; but rather to point out that the US Navy is historically weak at the moment, and likely to only get more so in the near future.

He stated clearly the USA didnt have to worry about iran...and the navy has suffered being shortchanged with so many resources going to ground troops in theatre.
Trust that CPwill would never denigrate the USA or its armed services...hes an active duty marine..:)

Except its not a fact that the US Navy is historically weak, its more powerful than it or any other navy has been in history, in terms of both absolute power and in comparison to other countries navies its undoubtedly more powerful than ever.

And thats really the kicker, if we are talking force on force naval comparison, no longer Navy than the US navy today is so far ahead of its peers and potential rivals. We didn't have this kind of clear advantage in the Cold War or either World War. If we are talking about global power projection, again the US navy of today wins, the simple fact that we have more friendly ports around the world, ships which can go their entire lifespan without refueling, larger carriers which can hold more aircraft, better and bigger means of getting the Marines ashore, etc.
 
Except its not a fact that the US Navy is historically weak, its more powerful than it or any other navy has been in history, in terms of both absolute power and in comparison to other countries navies its undoubtedly more powerful than ever.

And thats really the kicker, if we are talking force on force naval comparison, no longer Navy than the US navy today is so far ahead of its peers and potential rivals. We didn't have this kind of clear advantage in the Cold War or either World War. If we are talking about global power projection, again the US navy of today wins, the simple fact that we have more friendly ports around the world, ships which can go their entire lifespan without refueling, larger carriers which can hold more aircraft, better and bigger means of getting the Marines ashore, etc.

I dont think CPwill said that it wasnt the most powerful navy in the world...he said its weaker than it has been in the past...personally I dont know...so I am going to graciously back out as a third party to this conversation an apologize for intruding into it :)
 
The US Navy is the strongest Navy in the world, and not only within the world but also in history. Yes the total number of ships was exceeded in times past, but you should know that total numbers are meaningless especially when talking about these kind of wars and navies. There is nothing historically low about the US Navy, don't try to play people into fear.

The Iranians have been listening to all the talk about slashing the defense budget.
 
The US Navy is the strongest Navy in the world, and not only within the world but also in history. Yes the total number of ships was exceeded in times past, but you should know that total numbers are meaningless especially when talking about these kind of wars and navies. There is nothing historically low about the US Navy, don't try to play people into fear.

that is unfortunately incorrect. the US Navy is indeed the strongest in the world, and over the past few decades, has been the strongest in history. It is also, however, shrinking. The worlds deadliest carrier groups are worthless if they aren't there and aren't available. Ships go on tour and rotation just as ground units do - for every ship on the sea there is one in port, one in training; which means you take our already historically small navy and you divide by 3 - that is the number of ships (of whatever power) you have to distribute, and in order for many of them to be effective at all, they have to be distributed in groups. A carrier without a carrier group to defend it is just a big target. So, the reality becomes that you don't need to have a more powerful navy to beat the US Navy... you just need to have more or even roughly equivalent power in the region, and that is becoming increasingly easy, as we decrease our presence. We are about to dip to nine carrier groups if the supercommittee fails to protect the two that will be cut if they fail - that means that we can consistently deploy three. Three carrier groups to cover the worlds' oceans. Power isn't just measured in the raw - it's measured in relation to competitors and it's measured relative at the point of impact - and once we take a look at the relative mission, geography, and local concentrations by others, the story of the Awesome Over Powering US Navy becomes very different indeed.
 
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The Iranians have been listening to all the talk about slashing the defense budget.

...and misunderstanding what that means.

Two important things to remember are:

1). The USN will always complain that it doesn't have enough ships to cover all the points it is supposed to cover. The Navy knows that if it keeps complaining then Congress will eventually give them the new ships they want to have. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." This doesn't necessarily mean the Navy can't fight at these "thin spots." It means the Navy wants to be sure its guaranteed a win at all points, all of the time.

2). News flash: Naval ships can be moved. If a "hot spot" develops anywhere on the globe, the USN will consider if the ships already in that location are enough to deal with that problem. If not, then ships from other locations steam over to the hot spot and within days or even hours, the Navy is not thin at all in that location; it's very thick and extremely dangerous.
 
He was not trying to play into anyones fear...he was merely stating a fact wiseone...he said in his post..quote

The point here isn't that Iran could take on and defeat the US in an offensive naval war; but rather to point out that the US Navy is historically weak at the moment, and likely to only get more so in the near future.

He stated clearly the USA didnt have to worry about iran...and the navy has suffered being shortchanged with so many resources going to ground troops in theatre.
Trust that CPwill would never denigrate the USA or its armed services...hes an active duty marine..:)

and, it should be mentioned, a huge fan of naval power. that is why I am concerned that we are asking the Navy to do more with less, when they have stretched themselves thin already doing so.
 
...and misunderstanding what that means.

Two important things to remember are:

1). The USN will always complain that it doesn't have enough ships to cover all the points it is supposed to cover. The Navy knows that if it keeps complaining then Congress will eventually give them the new ships they want to have. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." This doesn't necessarily mean the Navy can't fight at these "thin spots." It means the Navy wants to be sure its guaranteed a win at all points, all of the time.

2). News flash: Naval ships can be moved. If a "hot spot" develops anywhere on the globe, the USN will consider if the ships already in that location are enough to deal with that problem. If not, then ships from other locations steam over to the hot spot and within days or even hours, the Navy is not thin at all in that location; it's very thick and extremely dangerous.

:) you need two carrier groups to realistically prevent a threatened Chinese move on Taiwan. ASSUMING you have them on station, which, with three, you won't. It takes time to move ships, especially when you consider that they have to move as fleets, which means that the slowest critical ship sets the pace, and during particular points in the sea during certain seasons, travel is restricted significantly further. Another Carrier to keep Iran in check and support ops in Central/SW Asia, and now the US is officially out of available naval surface combat power. While this is going on, Somali pirates shut down the international oil trade (no US presence, they are too busy steaming to China) and the world economy goes into a tailspin. I'm so glad we decided to eat seed corn and scrap two carrier groups.
 
This is another Iranian attempt at getting attention from the international media. The Iranian navy would be completely annihilated if it attempted to engage the U.S. in any way, and the Iranians are smart enough to know that.
 
Well Iran... I'd say you're odds are good :lamo :lamo :lamo

navy-fleet.jpg
The Iranian navy would never get this view. ;)
 
that is unfortunately incorrect. the US Navy is indeed the strongest in the world, and over the past few decades, has been the strongest in history. It is also, however, shrinking. The worlds deadliest carrier groups are worthless if they aren't there and aren't available. Ships go on tour and rotation just as ground units do - for every ship on the sea there is one in port, one in training; which means you take our already historically small navy and you divide by 3 - that is the number of ships (of whatever power) you have to distribute, and in order for many of them to be effective at all, they have to be distributed in groups. A carrier without a carrier group to defend it is just a big target. So, the reality becomes that you don't need to have a more powerful navy to beat the US Navy... you just need to have more or even roughly equivalent power in the region, and that is becoming increasingly easy, as we decrease our presence. We are about to dip to nine carrier groups if the supercommittee fails to protect the two that will be cut if they fail - that means that we can consistently deploy three. Three carrier groups to cover the worlds' oceans. Power isn't just measured in the raw - it's measured in relation to competitors and it's measured relative at the point of impact - and once we take a look at the relative mission, geography, and local concentrations by others, the story of the Awesome Over Powering US Navy becomes very different indeed.

It's thinking like this that probably has countries like Iran and Pakistan foolishly believing they can defeat the US.

It's true that the USN plays a constant shell game with its CVBGs (Carrier Battle Groups) for the purposes you mention, but also to keep to potential enemies on their heels, wondering exactly how to defend against a constantly shifting deployment of forces. If what you "see" is not necessarily what is "available," it's difficult to plan offensives.

This model you propose relies substantially on a purely static model of US naval forces.

Fighting the USN, and by extension the US military, is like fighting a many-armed octopus. What a single country may "see" in their region, "at the point of impact," may be a single arm of the octopus. They may believe that if they can defeat that single arm, then they have defeated the entire USN (the whole octopus). Foolish! Just because other CVBGs (more arms of the octopus) aren't present at that very moment doesn't mean that more aren't coming. You posted correctly (later) that it takes time to move ships and forces around, but they do arrive eventually and will be ready to finish off the attacker. Defeat in a single battle does not equal victory in war. If a hot spot flares up, and other CVBGs are training or taking time off for R&R, they do not blithely continue their current activity as if nothing else in the world is happening. They cut short their training or R&R - immediately - and mobilize to support other fleet units. Other arms of the octopus, undeterred by the loss of one arm, crush the attacker.

The USN does not "need" a CVBG hovering around to cover "just Iran." Iran's naval forces are too insignificant to warrant it. CVBGs may cruise around the "Med" just to be nearby if needed. They are not there to cover a single country, but many.

I also hope that the CVBGs are not cut back. With civil unrest causing regime change all over the middle-east, now would be a terrible time for it.
 
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