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Thread: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Facinates me that its seems it was ok to let him be in jail for 20 years, but when it came to carrying out the final judgement, it is now you have the wrong person. I am not convinced. Our system is not perfect, yet it is a lot better than many other countries.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Whats amazingly absurd is the number of people that pretend to care about the individual and his poor tragic case.
    Who cares whether their intentions were misguided? The fact remains that if they were "using him", they were doing so in the most beneficial way possible for him

    It might help if they actually KNEW about which dead mule they were hopping on...might even help if they were a little more selective about the mules they whupped.
    It might help their cause, but it wouldn't do **** all to help him. In order to be used, the person being used can't be the only one who benefits from the situation.

    If anything, the people who were arguing his cause were being used by him. Not the other way around.

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Facinates me that its seems it was ok to let him be in jail for 20 years, but when it came to carrying out the final judgement, it is now you have the wrong person. I am not convinced. Our system is not perfect, yet it is a lot better than many other countries.
    That's because to most of these scumbag sympathizers a persons innocence has little to no relevance to their opposition of the death penalty.To them its just a tool for them to use to try to guilt people into not supporting the death penalty.

    Now there are some groups of people who actually do care if someone behind bars is innocent and they try to get DNA tests done and other things to help exonerate someone.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Who cares whether their intentions were misguided? The fact remains that if they were "using him", they were doing so in the most beneficial way possible for him



    It might help their cause, but it wouldn't do **** all to help him. In order to be used, the person being used can't be the only one who benefits from the situation.

    If anything, the people who were arguing his cause were being used by him. Not the other way around.
    Lets call it a mutually beneficially 'using'...one where everyone wins. He gets to enjoy a little bit of celebrity and goes down as a footnote in history, they get to pretend an innocent man was 'murdered'.

    Im fine with people that are truly opposed to the death penalty and stand against it no matter what. I would naturally have expected to see more of them rallying around the KKK member executed on the same day, just for consistency sake. And it would be nice if they were so committed to fight the death penalty for the unborn. I just think it is a wee bit hypocritical to slide in when something hits the newspapers, suddenly express concern and outrage, then move on the next headline. Its equally hypocritical to pretend they care about their guilt or innocence when all that they really care about is the death penalty.

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by vancemack
    fight the death penalty for the unborn.
    ban masturbation and periods!
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Lets call it a mutually beneficially 'using'...one where everyone wins.
    But you're saying they hitched their wagon to the wrong mule, and if that's true, he was the only one who had any chance of winning. He done lost, though.

    He gets to enjoy a little bit of celebrity and goes down as a footnote in history....
    I'm sure he thought that was worth his life.

    Im fine with people that are truly opposed to the death penalty and stand against it no matter what. I would naturally have expected to see more of them rallying around the KKK member executed on the same day, just for consistency sake.... I just think it is a wee bit hypocritical to slide in when something hits the newspapers, suddenly express concern and outrage, then move on the next headline. Its equally hypocritical to pretend they care about their guilt or innocence when all that they really care about is the death penalty.
    This is a totally valid argument about the inconsistency of many in the anti-death penalty crowd (minus the unborn portion, since that is an unrelated issue with many different points to be made).

    But at the same time, I recall when John Wayne Gacy was executed here in Illinois. He was a man who's guilt was cut and died, yet there were still anti-death penalty protests at his execution. The problem, in my opinion, was that they were far smaller than other protests where the guilt of the condemned was not so obvious as Gacy's was. If the movement wants to be taken seriously, it should be consistent on how it protests executions, on that I firmly agree.

    But I think that the inconsistency is actually due to a problem with the arguments presented by many who are opposed to the death penalty. They overfocus on the very real possibility of an innocent man being put to death hoping to sway proponents through emotionality. I think this is a flawed approach, myself, and it is also why there are far fewer who protest when guilt is obvious.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 09-26-11 at 02:14 PM.

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    But you're saying they hitched their wagon to the wrong mule, and if that's true, he was the only one who had any chance of winning. He done lost, though.



    I'm sure he thought that was worth his life.



    This is a totally valid argument about the inconsistency of many in the anti-death penalty crowd (minus the unborn portion, since that is an unrelated issue with many different points to be made).

    But at the same time, I recall when John Wayne Gacy was executed here in Illinois. He was a man who's guilt was cut and died, yet there were still anti-death penalty protests at his execution. The problem, in my opinion, was that they were far smaller than other protests where the guilt of the condemned was not so obvious as Gacy's was. If the movement wants to be taken seriously, it should be consistent on how it protests executions, on that I firmly agree.

    But I think that the inconsistency is actually due to a problem with the arguments presented by many who are opposed to the death penalty. They overfocus on the very real possibility of an innocent man being put to death hoping to sway proponents through emotionality. I think this is a flawed approach, myself, and it is also why there are far fewer who protest when guilt is obvious.
    If people were to simply take a stand against the death penalty, that would be an honest and IMO much more powerful stand to take. When the threads started about Troy Davis, it wasnt about "End Death Sentence Now" it was about "Oh the injustice...an innocent man is about to be murdered by the state." One position is honest and even consistent. The other is pure hype and rhetoric...and dishonest to boot. For those people to pretend to 'care' about the guy is mere hypocricy. I said it then...the anti-death penalty folks that were there with the pictures of Troy Davis over their face were gone by 11 pm. Like I said...if you are going to run in the Kentucky Derby, you probably should ride in on a beatdown mule that couldnt get out of the gate. I think protests like this hurt their cause. You mentioned Gacy...THATS the kind of executions they should be protesting at and they shoulnt cloud their message with this pretense of 'injustice'.

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If people were to simply take a stand against the death penalty, that would be an honest and IMO much more powerful stand to take. When the threads started about Troy Davis, it wasnt about "End Death Sentence Now" it was about "Oh the injustice...an innocent man is about to be murdered by the state." One position is honest and even consistent. The other is pure hype and rhetoric...and dishonest to boot. For those people to pretend to 'care' about the guy is mere hypocricy. I said it then...the anti-death penalty folks that were there with the pictures of Troy Davis over their face were gone by 11 pm. Like I said...if you are going to run in the Kentucky Derby, you probably should ride in on a beatdown mule that couldnt get out of the gate. I think protests like this hurt their cause. You mentioned Gacy...THATS the kind of executions they should be protesting at and they shoulnt cloud their message with this pretense of 'injustice'.
    You do know that like the oldest death penalty opponent, a black man, DID protest the death of that white supremacist guy, for EXACTLY the reasons you p
    osit, right?

    Personally my position is I reject the resistance to using technology to determine if people convicted before these techs were available were convicted in error.

    This applies to ALL convictions in which DNA evidence exists that could be exculpatory.

    Capital and otherwise.

    I knew a guy who did 6 years for rejecting his girlfriends deeply troubled daughters advances. She accused him of rape, he was convicted.

    She recanted years later during therapy, and pursued his release. He still spent 6 years in prison as a rapist, but at least he wasn't executed.

    I'm not anti-death penalty in and of itself, I just feel standards of evidence should be extrememly high for its application, with a bias towards certainty when reasonable doubt comes into question, rather than fighting tooth and nail to uphold every conviction.

    "We screwed you fair and square", just isn't an acceptable position for a prosecutor to take.

    CYA isn't either, and I'm sure that's where most of the resistance to making sure comes from.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That's because to most of these scumbag sympathizers a persons innocence has little to no relevance to their opposition of the death penalty.To them its just a tool for them to use to try to guilt people into not supporting the death penalty.

    Now there are some groups of people who actually do care if someone behind bars is innocent and they try to get DNA tests done and other things to help exonerate someone.
    How do you tell the difference between the scumbag sympathizers and the non-scumbag sympathizers? You're good james, but not that good.
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    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis

    The case had nothing to do with race. The prosecution had 34 witnesses, and all were black.

    Read the case details: Troy Davis case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The guy was as guilty as sin.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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