Other companies weren't bailed out with U.S. dollars.
See, from my perspective, this is why I'm
less bothered by GM outsourcing than I am with a company like Ford outsourcing. I have a vested interest in GM's bottom line (so that we might recoup our losses from the bailout), whereas I don't care a lick about Ford's bottom line. The only reaosn I would have bought a Ford before was to help American's keep jobs. A foreign-made ford is of no value to me. Whereas there is
some value in a foreign-made Chevy due to the bailout.
People didn't bail them out to build cars in China. As I said, it won't be a problem if the cars stay in China.
This doesn't make sense to me, though. they were
already building cars in other countries when they got bailed out. They weren't expected to stop building cars in other countries, so why is China such a problem?
Or one thing the same and one thing out of desperation.
I don't disagree that it was done out of desperation, but that doesn't make it any less different. I'm no fan of the unions (I actually have a strong
distaste for them form my time running a non-union carpentry company), but I
will give them credit when they make the right decision, even if they only did the right thing out of pure desperation.
I'm of the belief that urging over-priced workers to retire was the right thing for them to do. Whether or not they **** things up again from here on out is a different story, but that action (which is nothing to shake a stick at)
does indicate that they are approaching things
somewhat differently than they have in the past.
That's the way I recalled it but since I have no desire to go back and read through everything we'll go with the idea I was mistaken.
fair enough.
Other than we know how many jobs (well not exactly how many but it's alot) have been lost by companies making their products elsewhere.
But the overall effect of outsourcing on the total number of jobs has not been negative so much as it has been neutral, because while we lose jobs that are outsourced, we gain different kinds of jobs.
In another thread I saw your description of what your father has done (with his job at sears). To me, it looks like we actually have a similar view on this. While a person may lose their job in one field, a motivated person
will find another job elsewhere, often in a completely unrelated field.
Perhaps my view of things is in part due to the fact that I
used to do
very well for myself in the construction industry, which was not outsourced but it
was practically
eradicated in this recession due to the housing bubble. Instead of chasing after jobs that weren't there, I've
completely altered my career course. I tightened my belt and took on a job that pays a fraction of what I used to make in order to set myself up for that future career. I was more willing to do this than other might be because I did not entertain the fantasy that I could pull an undo on reality. Even if I
did manage to land another carpentry job, it would be at a fraction of what I used to make anyway, and my hold on that job would be tenuous regardless of my skill at the job (and I happen to be pretty good at it, if I do say so myself).
So, to be frank, I realize that this
does add a degree of bias to my assessments on how to move forward form bad situations. I firmly believe that if I did not have a practical approach to things I would be in
far worse shape now than I am (I'm actually not in bad shape at all, even though I make a lot less than I used to).
It would be good IF the things I note do not come about.
Fair enough. I think it can be good either way, as long as it is profitable. I'm not convinced that cars made in China won't sell here, and I think that
massive profits can be had
in China simply due to the immense size of that market.
I'm asking. You answering?
Yes.
No, other than to note that there is nothing wrong with pointing out the problems you can forsee in the future.
True. I have misunderstood your intentions, then. We essentially differ on our assessment of how much of a future problem the possibility of Chinese-made GM's being sold in the US would be. I think that the bigger threat to GM's domestic sales comes from the opposition to buying from a company that got bailed out (which, I have to say, is totally inconsistent, seeing how many people who are averse to buying GM vehicles will still patronize banks that were bailed out that outsource.)
Technology will displace some jobs. It's best if it's displacing them here. Someone still needs to run the new technology.
The people who run the technology are rarely the same people that it replaces.
So 100% of those in this discussion agree that they would pay more for a U.S. made product.
I don't care if they
agree, the reality of the situation is that they
would pay more to buy most U.S. made products.
I know that to be the case because I
do it. I'm not
speculating about it being the case, I'm
encountering it being the case.
I don't believe I'm all that special. On top of that I support things to encourage it.
If you are doing what I do -buying the majority of things locally and US made- then you are special (at least compared to the majority overall, your local region might be different, though). I
also support things to encourage it. But I'm also fairly realistic about what percentage of people will be willing to go that route, at least in my region.
Perhaps you live in a region of the US where a higher proportion of people are willing to go this route, or it's much easier to buy your food locally (which will make it cheaper)
Seems to me that they've had little choice.
They've
had a choice, they've simply not
made that choice. They weren't willing to make the necessary sacrifices that go along with that choice.
It's silly to assume that since one choice is far easier, no other options exist. They can research the companies they patronize, they can look at labels, they can shop at locally owned stores, etc. If one is determined enough, they can still find American-made versions of most products
The domestic manufacturers got complacent. No doubt. People won't pay more for lower quality. There is no reason for that to be the case now.
There's one very important reason. No matter what, there will always be some country where cheaper labor can be found than what can be found here. And the part in bold is important. People typically won't pay more for equal quality products either. Just because something is American-made doesn't mean it'll be higher quality. That's part of the problem that got us here. Equal quality can be found cheaper.
The only thing that can change the outsourcing issue would be if everyone took the stance of buying American-made products
simply because they are American-made. If they boycotted products, regardless of quality and price, that are a product of outsourcing.
People are going to consider that.
I guess I don't have as much faith in people as you do.
