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Gm moves to China

sawyerloggingon said:
We bail out GM and now they move jobs to China? It makes me ask WTF??????? :doh

GM enters electric car joint venture with Chinese automaker | AHN
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To put this into perspective the NLRB said that Boeing could not open a factory it built in South Carolina to when it was expanding capacity for a new jetliner. I guess the lesson from a company that the US bailed out and is still the largest stockholder is forget trying to open plants in the US with all the red tape, go to China!
 
As a consumer you shop to find to the cheapest product and as a business they have the right to do the same with their costs.

If you want to keep them maybe you should you offer them something to make them use the more expensive product?
 
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Lord Tammerlain said:
Which jobs are they taking to China

Has any GM employee lost a job from this action at all.
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Yes, any employee present and future who would have worked on this. There are a lot of good people in Michigan and other states who would love to go back to work making cars for America and the world. It seems however GM said **** you! to Americans and hello to China.
 
Henrin said:
As a consumer you shop to find to the cheapest product and as a business they have the right to do the same with their costs.

If you want to keep them maybe you should you offer them something to make them use the more expensive product?
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Like a bail out?
 
1Perry said:
Like a bail out?
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The bailout that changed up their power structure and reshaped the business around government policy? You mean the loan that wasn't I take over if you fail to pay it back but I take over when you ask for a loan. That bailout?
 
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Risky Thicket said:
Yes, any employee present and future who would have worked on this. There are a lot of good people in Michigan and other states who would love to go back to work making cars for America and the world. It seems however GM said **** you! to Americans and hello to China.
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Union members ****ed themselves and the consumers when they got greedy. I don't shed a tear for them.
 
What do the protectionist posters intend to do about the WTO, withdraw?
 
tessaesque said:
Am I reading this right? There are assembly line workers making $46/hour? That's $95,680.00 plus low/no premiums for healthcare and "free" pensions?
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Thats for SKILLED, TRADED WORKERS not line workers....
 
Henrin said:
Union members ****ed themselves and the consumers when they got greedy. I don't shed a tear for them.
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Then shed a tear for you kids when their talking chinese and working for a buck an hour
 
One thing is for certain...I shall not buy a GM car ever again...nor a honda since they decided to employ mexicans to build cars for americans....

See theres some irony for the UNION BASHERS.....Honda is not unionized and built and almost billion dollar plant in mexico...what up wid dat huh ? cant blame their union....so whats the excuse for that ?

ITS GREED BABY......ITS ALL GREED.....stop trying to make unions the scapegoats for disgusting greedy mutts are doing to our country for an extra buck
 
lpast said:
One thing is for certain...I shall not buy a GM car ever again...nor a honda since they decided to employ mexicans to build cars for americans....

See theres some irony for the UNION BASHERS.....Honda is not unionized and built and almost billion dollar plant in mexico...what up wid dat huh ? cant blame their union....so whats the excuse for that ?

ITS GREED BABY......ITS ALL GREED.....stop trying to make unions the scapegoats for disgusting greedy mutts are doing to our country for an extra buck
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So you are against companies shopping for the lowest cost? Good to know you wish to hold them down to your demands but want to turn around and call them greedy bastards. right...

Look, in no way does this discredit the idea that the union members are overpaid for their line of work, and in no way discredits the idea they were a part in their downfall. You want to know the truth? The government even admitted that the unions were part of the problem when the bailout happened. Sorry, stop playing like it wasn't recognized by everyone at the time. It was.
 
lpast said:
Then shed a tear for you kids when their talking chinese and working for a buck an hour
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I'm sorry you can't see the truth of the market, and I'm sorry you can't figure out how to play it.

..and why would you buy a honda or GM in the first place? They aren't exactly great cars.
 
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Henrin said:
So you are against companies shopping for the lowest cost? Good to know you wish to hold them down to your demands but want to turn around and call them greedy bastards. right...

Look, in no way does this discredit the idea that the union members are overpaid for their line of work, and in no way discredits the idea they were a part in their downfall. You want to know the truth? The government even admitted that the unions were part of the problem when the bailout happened. Sorry, stop playing like it wasn't recognized by everyone at the time. It was.
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Im against companies running to other countries to employ mexicans and chinese and have americans out of work out of greed...YES and im against people such as yourself blaming american workers for these companies running to mexico and china...which is a big lie...GREED and only GREED is their motivation.

You cant on one hand tell me its the unions made GM run to china...then tell me its just a good business decision for NON UNION honda to run to mexico
 
lpast said:
Im against companies running to other countries to employ mexicans and chinese and have americans out of work out of greed...YES and im against people such as yourself blaming american workers for these companies running to mexico and china...which is a big lie...GREED and only GREED is their motivation.
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I'm sorry but pricing yourself out of the market and then act like its ok to restrict people shopping the market that exists is what you want to do. This is what union workers have done, what minimum wage has done, what liberal policies that try to bypass the market forces have done. Then they turn around and scream greed when the forgone conclusion happens as a result.

You cant on one hand tell me its the unions made GM run to china...then tell me its just a good business decision for NON UNION honda to run to mexico
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If you believe the world is about one concern I would question your ability to see but I'm going to assume you are playing dumb. The fact is these companies can shop the world and use the entire world as their market. They shop in this market for the lowest cost like any other consumer that is looking for a service. In their case employees are their service. You are simply not competitively priced and don't offer enough of a benefit over the rest of the market to warrant the price. Your only choices are to restrict their freedom or admit your failure.
 
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Henrin said:
I'm sorry but pricing yourself out of the market and then act like its ok to restrict people shopping the market that exists is what you want to do. This is what union workers have done, what minimum wage has done, what liberal policies that try to bypass the market forces have done. Then they turn around and scream greed when the forgone conclusion happens as a result.


If you believe the world is about one concern I would question your ability to see but I'm going to assume you are playing dumb. The fact is these companies can shop the world and use the entire world as their market. They shop in this market for the lowest cost like any other consumer that is looking for a service. In their case employees are their service. You are simply not competitively priced and don't offer enough of a benefit over the rest of the market to warrant the price. Your only choices are to restrict their freedom or admit your failure.
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Nope wrong...GM was union forever and was Number 1 forever, until they started making crap cars that fell apart rusted away and broke daily.
GM is in the shape its in...because they would not make cars americans wanted they kept right on relying on SUVs and P/Us...now they are scrambling to make what americans want.....Gm did it to themselves...not the unions...your using unions to excuse corporate miscues...and the engineering of crap vehicles
These companies are killing their country out of greed....thats what I know, open your eyes and you will see it too. Lets not forget one fact please...there would be no competition if our corporations didnt create it themselves.... so let them go shop for the lowest cost and pay more taxs here to run the country that they are gutting..
 
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tessaesque said:
Am I reading this right? There are assembly line workers making $46/hour? That's $95,680.00 plus low/no premiums for healthcare and "free" pensions?
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No. You tried adding the amount saved per worker to the amount paid to the lower-price replacement workers.

The amount a worker costs an employer per hour is usually a good bit higher than what the worker makes per hour.

If I paid a guy $30, he was usually costing me more than $50 an hour.
 
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The fair thing to do would be to find out if American workers would like to move to China for a better job.

Maybe they'll get lucky. Maybe their son will get picked on. Maybe he'll hate it. Maybe he'll seek to defend himself through the instruction of a washed-up maintenance man.

Wait, that sounds familiar...
 
Risky Thicket said:
Yes, any employee present and future who would have worked on this. There are a lot of good people in Michigan and other states who would love to go back to work making cars for America and the world. It seems however GM said **** you! to Americans and hello to China.
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The Joint venture is making cars for the Chinese market and will be eligable for credits only avaliable for cars made in China. GM cars made in the US would not be marketable in China due to high price. Meaning no jobs would be created in the US in the first place, as the business case would not support taking such action.

GM by forming the JV for hybrids and electric vehicles will sell more cars then it would otherwise, make more money then it would have otherwise, it will be able to support more R&D in the US then it would otherwise, GM shareholders will make more money then otherwise. Heck GM might be able to export high value parts to China to be put in these vehicle creating jobs

But no jobs were lost, and no jobs would have been created in the US if GM did not form this JV. As GM would not be able to have sold the electric/hybrid vehicles in China if they were not made in China (labour costs and the chinese credit)
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The Joint venture is making cars for the Chinese market and will be eligable for credits only avaliable for cars made in China. GM cars made in the US would not be marketable in China due to high price. Meaning no jobs would be created in the US in the first place, as the business case would not support taking such action.

GM by forming the JV for hybrids and electric vehicles will sell more cars then it would otherwise, make more money then it would have otherwise, it will be able to support more R&D in the US then it would otherwise, GM shareholders will make more money then otherwise. Heck GM might be able to export high value parts to China to be put in these vehicle creating jobs

But no jobs were lost, and no jobs would have been created in the US if GM did not form this JV. As GM would not be able to have sold the electric/hybrid vehicles in China if they were not made in China (labour costs and the chinese credit)
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By the same token as GM builds cars in China there will be job growth there not here. Perhaps we should look at the bigger picture and say why is the US not adopting China's trade strategy. They have no problem putting in place policies that advantage product made in their country, yet when that is talked about here are we hear is the concern for a trade war.
 
washunut said:
To put this into perspective the NLRB said that Boeing could not open a factory it built in South Carolina to when it was expanding capacity for a new jetliner. I guess the lesson from a company that the US bailed out and is still the largest stockholder is forget trying to open plants in the US with all the red tape, go to China!
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My first thought on this was if GM wanted lower labor cost why not move to a right to work state, your post reminds me why. Interesting how Obama is stopping Boeing from building a plant in a right to work state but turns a blind eye to GM building a plant in China. Maybe Boeing should just move to China too. Once again I ask, WTF?????
 
sawyerloggingon said:
We bail out GM and now they move jobs to China? It makes me ask WTF??????? :doh

GM enters electric car joint venture with Chinese automaker | AHN
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It must because of them thar e-vile unions why they outsourced.Which if that was the case then why didn't they simply move to a right to work state if it was simply a matter of not wanting to deal with unions? Is it because they can get away with requiring workers to work 80 hours a week for 75-120 dollars a month?
 
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Gipper said:
The fair thing to do would be to find out if American workers would like to move to China for a better job.

Maybe they'll get lucky. Maybe their son will get picked on. Maybe he'll hate it. Maybe he'll seek to defend himself through the instruction of a washed-up maintenance man.

Wait, that sounds familiar...
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I do not think any American can work 80 hours a week for a 75- 120 dollars a month and I imagine that any Chinese worker making that is living a **** hole shack and only feeding their family rice and ramen noodles.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A22507-2004Feb7?language=printer
Most of the 2,100 workers here are poor migrants from the countryside who have come to this industrial hub in southern China for jobs that pay about $120 a month.

snip..

Qin helps make plastic toy trains for Wal-Mart, but says she cannot afford to buy toys for her 9-year-old son. "In four years, they haven't increased the salary," she said.

snip..

Li said these factories often require employees to work as many as 80 hours per week during the busy season for $75 to $110 per month
 
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Henrin said:
So you are against companies shopping for the lowest cost? Good to know you wish to hold them down to your demands but want to turn around and call them greedy bastards. right...
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When they want me to buy the product, yes I do when it comes to government subsidized labor. I agree that unions have shot themselves in the foot but there is no competing with government subsidized labor. You can't do it.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
It can be hopeless to reason with people, but your well written and thoughtful posts are appreciated by some. :)

Posted from my phone
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I think you are mistaken if you think GM isn't going to start shipping these cars over here. If they don't, good for them, but I'm betting they do.
 
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