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Thread: Gm moves to China

  1. #61
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I guess itís the fact that the first news we hear from GM after we rescue them is they are opening a plant in China...
    This might be the first thing you've heard from GM after them being bailed out, but there has been a plethora of news from GM since the bailout.

    Hell, one really important story you must have missed was this one:

    General Motors Repays $8.1 Billion in Government Loans - ABC News

    Why did you assume that this was the first news we heard from GM after we rescued them? Not everyone is ill-informed.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 09-24-11 at 09:57 AM.

  2. #62
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    This might be the first thing you've heard from GM after them being bailed out, but there has been a plethora of news from GM since the bailout.

    Hell, one really important story you must have missed was this one:

    General Motors Repays $8.1 Billion in Government Loans - ABC News

    Why did you assume that this was the first news we heard from GM after we rescued them? Not everyone is ill-informed.
    The way I heard it that was smoke and mirrors, the basically used one lump of gov money to pay off another gov debt. Like if you paid of Master Card with your Visa. I have not researched this myself though so if you can prove me wrong feel free to do so. I am usually 100% sure of what I say before I say it, this is a rare exception. Its Saturday morning damnit, who has time. LOL

  3. #63
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    This was bugging me so I took a minute and found this, I was right again, damn I'm good!
    GM Pays Back TARP Loans With...TARP Loans! - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

  4. #64
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The way I heard it that was smoke and mirrors, the basically used one lump of gov money to pay off another gov debt. Like if you paid of Master Card with your Visa. I have not researched this myself though so if you can prove me wrong feel free to do so. I am usually 100% sure of what I say before I say it, this is a rare exception. Its Saturday morning damnit, who has time. LOL
    Ah, so you had heard that news from GM prior to the news that they are expanding into an emerging market. So you at least understand that the story we are talking about now was not the first we've heard from GM since they were bailed out.

    Nor is it the second, third or even twentieth thing we've heard from GM since that time, either.

  5. #65
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    This was bugging me so I took a minute and found this, I was right again, damn I'm good!
    GM Pays Back TARP Loans With...TARP Loans! - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine
    That story leaves out an important detail about the way that the debt was repayed. Not all of the Tarp money came in the form of loans. In fact, the government bought a controlling share in the company.

    Obama ****ed up (IMO) by selling off a large portion of those shares at a loss, but we (through the government) still retain about 33% of the total shares.

    The only way that we (through the government) can possibly recoup that which was invested into GM would be if the GM stocks rise to something like $55 a share. that doesn't seem all that likely, given that GM is trading at under $30 at the moment.

    But, one big way that we can mitigate our losses (or even pull off the upset by breaking even) is if GM becomes a successful business, thus driving up the stocks' worth.

    I think tapping into an emerging market such as China and cutting the costs of domestic employees are both positive steps toward that goal.

    While I disagree with how GM's bailout went down, I understand that it is in our best interest that this company succeeds now. People who choose to not buy GM in protest of the government's decision are contradicting themselves. If they really care about the money that was invested, then they should be hoping for GM to succeed so that we do not lose that money.

    It certainly doesn't help that the administration made a stupid business decision with that money, but I believe that this stupid business decision was in part fueled by the shortsighted political rhetoric surrounding the bailout (people who don't want to buy from "government motors" because they'd rather shoot themselves in the foot than just suck it up and deal with the reality of the situation). That shortsighted political nonsense is actually harming the country as much as the initial bailout did, if not more.

    We had a chance to recoup our investment if, instead of playing political games, our leaders asked us to rally behind the decision to help an American company. We could have helped GM become successful without them having the need to go into China. We didn't do that, though, for various reasons. For some people, it was a distaste for GM product which pre-existed the bailout. There's no fault in that. But for many, it is mostly due to political views, and I do find fault in that.

  6. #66
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That story leaves out an important detail about the way that the debt was repayed. Not all of the Tarp money came in the form of loans. In fact, the government bought a controlling share in the company.

    Obama ****ed up (IMO) by selling off a large portion of those shares at a loss, but we (through the government) still retain about 33% of the total shares.

    The only way that we (through the government) can possibly recoup that which was invested into GM would be if the GM stocks rise to something like $55 a share. that doesn't seem all that likely, given that GM is trading at under $30 at the moment.

    But, one big way that we can mitigate our losses (or even pull off the upset by breaking even) is if GM becomes a successful business, thus driving up the stocks' worth.

    I think tapping into an emerging market such as China and cutting the costs of domestic employees are both positive steps toward that goal.

    While I disagree with how GM's bailout went down, I understand that it is in our best interest that this company succeeds now. People who choose to not buy GM in protest of the government's decision are contradicting themselves. If they really care about the money that was invested, then they should be hoping for GM to succeed so that we do not lose that money.

    It certainly doesn't help that the administration made a stupid business decision with that money, but I believe that this stupid business decision was in part fueled by the shortsighted political rhetoric surrounding the bailout (people who don't want to buy from "government motors" because they'd rather shoot themselves in the foot than just suck it up and deal with the reality of the situation). That shortsighted political nonsense is actually harming the country as much as the initial bailout did, if not more.

    We had a chance to recoup our investment if, instead of playing political games, our leaders asked us to rally behind the decision to help an American company. We could have helped GM become successful without them having the need to go into China. We didn't do that, though, for various reasons. For some people, it was a distaste for GM product which pre-existed the bailout. There's no fault in that. But for many, it is mostly due to political views, and I do find fault in that.
    I disagreed with bailing out GM in the first place and think it was more about keeping the union strong. GM has been making crap cars for years and their contracts with unions were and are not viable. They needed to go bankrupt, renegotiate contracts with unions and get a fresh start as a leaner more efficient company, In short they needed to fail and propping them up with tax payer dollars was a monumental waste of money. We will never get it back, it’s more money down the toilet and the sooner they fail the better. I want those union jobs gone and those blood sucking so called workers that drink beer and smoke pot during their breaks gone too. The only chance America has is to get rid of unions both public and private, they are parasites on the economy.

  7. #67
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The way I heard it that was smoke and mirrors, the basically used one lump of gov money to pay off another gov debt. Like if you paid of Master Card with your Visa. I have not researched this myself though so if you can prove me wrong feel free to do so. I am usually 100% sure of what I say before I say it, this is a rare exception. Its Saturday morning damnit, who has time. LOL
    This is what happened.

  8. #68
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That story leaves out an important detail about the way that the debt was repayed. Not all of the Tarp money came in the form of loans. In fact, the government bought a controlling share in the company.

    Obama ****ed up (IMO) by selling off a large portion of those shares at a loss, but we (through the government) still retain about 33% of the total shares.
    Of which we will end up losing even more on.

    The only way that we (through the government) can possibly recoup that which was invested into GM would be if the GM stocks rise to something like $55 a share. that doesn't seem all that likely, given that GM is trading at under $30 at the moment.

    But, one big way that we can mitigate our losses (or even pull off the upset by breaking even) is if GM becomes a successful business, thus driving up the stocks' worth.

    I think tapping into an emerging market such as China and cutting the costs of domestic employees are both positive steps toward that goal.

    While I disagree with how GM's bailout went down, I understand that it is in our best interest that this company succeeds now. People who choose to not buy GM in protest of the government's decision are contradicting themselves. If they really care about the money that was invested, then they should be hoping for GM to succeed so that we do not lose that money.
    I thought about buying a new Chevy truck. I then see the Union negotiated with themselves and gave many of these cuts right back to the employee's starting right back with the very actions that helped get them in the mess in the first place.

    It certainly doesn't help that the administration made a stupid business decision with that money, but I believe that this stupid business decision was in part fueled by the shortsighted political rhetoric surrounding the bailout (people who don't want to buy from "government motors" because they'd rather shoot themselves in the foot than just suck it up and deal with the reality of the situation). That shortsighted political nonsense is actually harming the country as much as the initial bailout did, if not more.

    We had a chance to recoup our investment if, instead of playing political games, our leaders asked us to rally behind the decision to help an American company. We could have helped GM become successful without them having the need to go into China. We didn't do that, though, for various reasons. For some people, it was a distaste for GM product which pre-existed the bailout. There's no fault in that. But for many, it is mostly due to political views, and I do find fault in that.
    GM's long term outlook has been set once the union was gave the keys to the henhouse.

    No, if the government had insisted on GM going through a proper bankruptcy with the undertanding that it would stand behind the company I might have understood. A proper bankruptcy though would not have been a positive for the unions and Obama could have none of that so he turned our accepted laws on their heads. Yes it is my political view that this is NEVER a proper role of the government and all they did was cost the taxpayers, who knows how much in reality to simply put the problem off into the future.

  9. #69
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    Re: Gm moves to China

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I disagreed with bailing out GM in the first place and think it was more about keeping the union strong. GM has been making crap cars for years and their contracts with unions were and are not viable.
    GM had been making some great cars.

    They needed to go bankrupt, renegotiate contracts with unions and get a fresh start as a leaner more efficient company, In short they needed to fail and propping them up with tax payer dollars was a monumental waste of money. We will never get it back, it’s more money down the toilet and the sooner they fail the better. I want those union jobs gone and those blood sucking so called workers that drink beer and smoke pot during their breaks gone too. The only chance America has is to get rid of unions both public and private, they are parasites on the economy.
    This is what should have happened. The sooner we have a leader willing to give what was stolen from investors back to them, the better off we will be.

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    Re: Gm moves to China

    My wife had an 89 Chevy Blazer that literally fell apart at 100K, it was almost like it was designed to do so, that’s why I am so down on them when it comes to quality.

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