People realize China moreso but not exclusively doesn't play fair when it comes to trade.This doesn't make sense to me, though. they were already building cars in other countries when they got bailed out. They weren't expected to stop building cars in other countries, so why is China such a problem?
I don't despise unions like some. I admit that they do good some of the time. They just don't know when to stop asking for more and more.I don't disagree that it was done out of desperation, but that doesn't make it any less different. I'm no fan of the unions (I actually have a strong distaste for them form my time running a non-union carpentry company), but I will give them credit when they make the right decision, even if they only did the right thing out of pure desperation.
Over priced? I'd say unaffordable. Not that I really took your posts as a knock. But anyway......the unions realize that there is nothing they can do for these workers IMO. It's in their best interest to not have to deal with it. I won't dismiss your arguement out of hand. I can just see them asking for increases for the lower wage workers (which they did and got) and not wanting to have to deal with the higher paid workers wanting to know where theirs is at.I'm of the belief that urging over-priced workers to retire was the right thing for them to do. Whether or not they **** things up again from here on out is a different story, but that action (which is nothing to shake a stick at) does indicate that they are approaching things somewhat differently than they have in the past.
I hear this and I just don't buy it. How does no one making televisions in the U.S. create a job we wouldn't have otherwise?But the overall effect of outsourcing on the total number of jobs has not been negative so much as it has been neutral, because while we lose jobs that are outsourced, we gain different kinds of jobs.
Sure but he's not in the same position he was in before he put his years in and retired. Now, I've argued that indeed, these old jobs that I believe we could still do here will not pay the way they once did.In another thread I saw your description of what your father has done (with his job at sears). To me, it looks like we actually have a similar view on this. While a person may lose their job in one field, a motivated person will find another job elsewhere, often in a completely unrelated field.
All the props to you.Perhaps my view of things is in part due to the fact that I used to do very well for myself in the construction industry, which was not outsourced but it was practically eradicated in this recession due to the housing bubble. Instead of chasing after jobs that weren't there, I've completely altered my career course. I tightened my belt and took on a job that pays a fraction of what I used to make in order to set myself up for that future career. I was more willing to do this than other might be because I did not entertain the fantasy that I could pull an undo on reality. Even if I did manage to land another carpentry job, it would be at a fraction of what I used to make anyway, and my hold on that job would be tenuous regardless of my skill at the job (and I happen to be pretty good at it, if I do say so myself).
Obviously I've argued the same things. I still would based upon my current arguement. Someone manufacturing a television isn't going to get paid what a good carpenter was able to. It's better than unemployment though.So, to be frank, I realize that this does add a degree of bias to my assessments on how to move forward form bad situations. I firmly believe that if I did not have a practical approach to things I would be in far worse shape now than I am (I'm actually not in bad shape at all, even though I make a lot less than I used to).
Indeed. I'd like to see the unions sneak in this way also.Fair enough. I think it can be good either way, as long as it is profitable. I'm not convinced that cars made in China won't sell here, and I think that massive profits can be had in China simply due to the immense size of that market.
Here is my problem. I DO NOT want the government thinking how they did this was a good idea. They completely turned accepted laws and systems on their heads. As I've argued, if this had been a standard bankruptcy with the governments only role was in stating that they would gaurantee any money, I would not have the problems with this that I do. They government had no place telling investors that they can just forget their place because the government have others they want to place ahead of you.True. I have misunderstood your intentions, then. We essentially differ on our assessment of how much of a future problem the possibility of Chinese-made GM's being sold in the US would be. I think that the bigger threat to GM's domestic sales comes from the opposition to buying from a company that got bailed out (which, I have to say, is totally inconsistent, seeing how many people who are averse to buying GM vehicles will still patronize banks that were bailed out that outsource.)
Jobs are jobs.The people who run the technology are rarely the same people that it replaces.
This is starting to change. Once China has the market they can charge whatever they want. I did recently find a small portable heater. Made in the U.S.A It was the same price as the import models.I don't care if they agree, the reality of the situation is that they would pay more to buy most U.S. made products.
I know that to be the case because I do it. I'm not speculating about it being the case, I'm encountering it being the case.
[quote]If you are doing what I do -buying the majority of things locally and US made- then you are special (at least compared to the majority overall, your local region might be different, though). I also support things to encourage it. But I'm also fairly realistic about what percentage of people will be willing to go that route, at least in my region. [quote]
Majority? I can't find a majority of things. I do look. It's a bit of a joke with my wife and daughter.......she's 10. She and her mom will be out shopping and she'll come home and say "Look dad, made in the U.S.". LOL
I do not know that the people in this area would pay more or not. Many say they want to be able to purchase U.S. items but I'm not sure how many would pay more or how much more.Perhaps you live in a region of the US where a higher proportion of people are willing to go this route, or it's much easier to buy your food locally (which will make it cheaper)
I tried to find a coffee pot made in the U.S. I couldn't do it. I tried to find a floor jack made in the U.S. The only ones I could find were large commercial units. I bought a used one because the Chinese ones are ****.They've had a choice, they've simply not made that choice. They weren't willing to make the necessary sacrifices that go along with that choice.
It's silly to assume that since one choice is far easier, no other options exist. They can research the companies they patronize, they can look at labels, they can shop at locally owned stores, etc. If one is determined enough, they can still find American-made versions of most products
I believe that is often times the case but not because it has to be. Look at refrigerators. You once got like 3 year warranties with many times 5-10 years on certain parts. We could still make them that well. Now they have 6 months warranties because they are made so poorly. (elsewhere)There's one very important reason. No matter what, there will always be some country where cheaper labor can be found than what can be found here. And the part in bold is important. People typically won't pay more for equal quality products either. Just because something is American-made doesn't mean it'll be higher quality. That's part of the problem that got us here. Equal quality can be found cheaper.
I have to have my coffee.The only thing that can change the outsourcing issue would be if everyone took the stance of buying American-made products simply because they are American-made. If they boycotted products, regardless of quality and price, that are a product of outsourcing.
I guess I don't have as much faith in people as you do.