Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

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".....according to a study released those already in financially-stable circumstances should fear falling down a few rungs too. The study… found that nearly a third of Americans who were part of the middle class as teenagers in the 1970s have fallen out of it as adults… its findings suggest the relative ease with which people in the U.S. can end up in low-income, low-opportunity lifestyles — even if they started out with a number of advantages. Though the American middle class has been repeatedly invoked as a key factor in any economic turnaround, numerous reports have suggested that the middle class enjoys less existential security than it did a generation ago, thanks to stagnating incomes and the decline of the industrial sector.”

“The idea that children will grow up to be better off than their parents is a central component of the American Dream, and sustains American optimism. However, Downward Mobility from the Middle Class: Waking up from the American Dream finds that a middle-class upbringing does not guarantee the same status over the course of a lifetime. A third of Americans raised in the middle class—defined here as those between the 30th and 70th percentiles of the income distribution—fall out of the middle as adults.”

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You can find the whole study here and the studies findings here: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments | Economy | AlterNet
Its a lenghty report but is defiantly worth a read... I know a bunch on the right will probably just play it off as "being from Alternet so everything it says must be false" but instead of saying that please try to refuet the study with facts and what not... The middle class is defiantly dwindling and its time for a serious middle and working class movement needing to rise up...

Thought?
Comments?
Response?

TheDemSocialist said:

If this does not belong here please move it mod...



You can find the whole study here and the studies findings here: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments | Economy | AlterNet
Its a lenghty report but is defiantly worth a read... I know a bunch on the right will probably just play it off as "being from Alternet so everything it says must be false" but instead of saying that please try to refuet the study with facts and what not... The middle class is defiantly dwindling and its time for a serious middle and working class movement needing to rise up...

Thought?
Comments?
Response?

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I agree 100% that the middle class is suffering under the current regime's policies. Everyone know that, already.

apdst said:

I agree 100% that the middle class is suffering under the current regime's policies. Everyone know that, already.

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There be trolls beneath the bridge.

Morality Games said:

There be trolls beneath the bridge.

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Moderator's Warning:

If you think some one is trolling, just report the thread and do not respond.

apdst said:

I agree 100% that the middle class is suffering under the current regime's policies. Everyone know that, already.

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Ahh yes, the "blame Obama for everything" crowd pipes up right on schedule.

TheDemSocialist said:

If this does not belong here please move it mod...



You can find the whole study here and the studies findings here: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments | Economy | AlterNet
Its a lenghty report but is defiantly worth a read... I know a bunch on the right will probably just play it off as "being from Alternet so everything it says must be false" but instead of saying that please try to refuet the study with facts and what not... The middle class is defiantly dwindling and its time for a serious middle and working class movement needing to rise up...

Thought?
Comments?
Response?

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It's alternet, a highly biased, scare source with a political agenda that when you realize the truth, the irony of this peice is most amusing. Alternet's political endgame would enslave the middle class more completely, and more destructively then anything they purport to be a danger.

But what do you expect? Alternet is owned by the SPLC

apdst said:

I agree 100% that the middle class is suffering under the current regime's policies. Everyone know that, already.

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Suuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrre lol.....we all know whats killing the middleclass including you apdst...your a smart guy. Its the pigs at the trough stripping middleclass workers of everything...stagnating their pay and moving their jobs to china all out of GREED...gimmmmmeeee moAR...

And yet, even as the Middle class sinks into the Lower middle class, Some want MORE Tax dollars from them. That they should pay "their fair share"; 'flat tax' etc.
A giant Reverse stimulous program.
Difficult to think of anything more destructive economically or socially.
The finishing touch on an already weak economy.

Thirty years from now when the numbers are even more stark and even the far right lunatic fringe which constantly apologizes for the rich and corporations can no longer deny the shrinking ofthe middle class, they will shift gears and blame such a thing on a variety of factors - all on the progressive side of the spectrum. And they will pretend they did not deny the trend but rather tried to warn us to avert it.

We are doomed.

haymarket said:

Thirty years from now when the numbers are even more stark and even the far right lunatic fringe which constantly apologizes for the rich and corporations can no longer deny the shrinking ofthe middle class, they will shift gears and blame such a thing on a variety of factors - all on the progressive side of the spectrum. And they will pretend they did not deny the trend but rather tried to warn us to avert it.

We are doomed.

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well lets hope the majority of america who are the working classs...get s spark under thier behinds....like they most always do when they are under assault

lpast said:

well lets hope the majority of america who are the working classs...get s spark under thier behinds....like they most always do when they are under assault

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The response by workers in Wisconsin was encouraging. Let us hope that such citizen activity becomes the norm should the worse happen.

In my more pessimistic moods, I fear that the modern Roman circus of TV will prevent an appropriate response.

One thing I noticed, that just can not be

More than one in seven homeowners with loans in excess of a million dollars is seriously delinquent…. By contrast, homeowners with less lavish housing are much more likely to keep writing checks to their lender. About one in 12 mortgages below the million-dollar mark is delinquent. Why would there be this differential given the stress on budgets felt by homebuyers below the million dollar mark? It looks very much like strategic defaults at play.”

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I mean the CRA I am certain did not apply to people taking out million dollar plus mortgages

haymarket said:

The response by workers in Wisconsin was encouraging. Let us hope that such citizen activity becomes the norm should the worse happen.

In my more pessimistic moods, I fear that the modern Roman circus of TV will prevent an appropriate response.

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Hay, you are living in a past century. I don't presume to have the answers, but America is now part of a global economy. Even when jobs numbers were better in the last decade we were hiding the fact that Americans were losing jobs, like in the auto industry that paid 40-50/ per hour including benefits and when they lost those jobs had only the skills to be Wal mart greeters at $8/ hour. We have propped up the society on debt both public and private and now are at the point where that no longer works.

So the reality is Americans have traded the standard of living of the middle class who made things for getting that "stuff" cheaper when built in Asia. People who want to blame bankers and call them greedy should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they supported "made in america" or if they were happy to buy foreign made goods. Ask them if they were willing to pay a few percent more to support the local hardware store or if they shop at Home Depot or Wal Mart.

After saying all that then ask how the worker who took a haircut from 40/hour to 8/hour ( if he/she still has a job) if they are fine giving workers that they support through higher property taxes.

Talk about "shared sacrifice" what hypocrites some people are on this topic. Seems you think everyone should sacrifice but government workers.

washunut said:

Hay, you are living in a past century. I don't presume to have the answers, but America is now part of a global economy. Even when jobs numbers were better in the last decade we were hiding the fact that Americans were losing jobs, like in the auto industry that paid 40-50/ per hour including benefits and when they lost those jobs had only the skills to be Wal mart greeters at $8/ hour. We have propped up the society on debt both public and private and now are at the point where that no longer works.

So the reality is Americans have traded the standard of living of the middle class who made things for getting that "stuff" cheaper when built in Asia. People who want to blame bankers and call them greedy should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they supported "made in america" or if they were happy to buy foreign made goods. Ask them if they were willing to pay a few percent more to support the local hardware store or if they shop at Home Depot or Wal Mart.

After saying all that then ask how the worker who took a haircut from 40/hour to 8/hour ( if he/she still has a job) if they are fine giving workers that they support through higher property taxes.

Talk about "shared sacrifice" what hypocrites some people are on this topic. Seems you think everyone should sacrifice but government workers.

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You have it exactly backasswards...your blaming workers for corporations taking jobs to china....First of all we couldnt buy goods not made in America if they still were made in america...so the jobs left long before we didnt buy american anymore. As it stands right now there are many items you cant find made in america and if you do you have one or two choices....TVs...toys..dvd players...clothes..computer parts...the list is endless.

The rich corporatists greed caused this malais...not the working class...now they teaparty has started this classwarfare between private sector workers and public...good move on their part
This is all about greed...GE paid not a dime in taxs then moves a division to china....bah...anyone naive enough to blame this on the middleclass or the working class has been drinking too much teaparty tea and corporate koolaid

lpast said:

You have it exactly backasswards...your blaming workers for corporations taking jobs to china....First of all we couldnt buy goods not made in America if they still were made in america...so the jobs left long before we didnt buy american anymore. As it stands right now there are many items you cant find made in america and if you do you have one or two choices....TVs...toys..dvd players...clothes..computer parts...the list is endless.

The rich corporatists greed caused this malais...not the working class...now they teaparty has started this classwarfare between private sector workers and public...good move on their part
This is all about greed...GE paid not a dime in taxs then moves a division to china....bah...anyone naive enough to blame this on the middleclass or the working class has been drinking too much teaparty tea and corporate koolaid

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You clearly did not understand my post. But then it was not directed at you but to Hay who has refused to respond.

Forget the fact that I did not blame workers, keep your head in the sand and see how well that does for the American middle class of which I am one. That is what makes the above so ludicrous.

lpast said:

You have it exactly backasswards...your blaming workers for corporations taking jobs to china....

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Why did these jobs move to China and other countries? Was it pure greed on the part of the investors, you know the ones who invest their money in hopes of making money back, or was it the cost of doing business here was getting so high that profitability had died?
Personally, I believe it was both. Investors don't invest if the rate of return is low. The rate was low because businesses couldn't compete paying the huge costs demanded by unions. Both have a share of the blame. What is your solution? Take money from people and "create" jobs without regard to profit?

The rich corporatists greed caused this malais...not the working class...now they teaparty has started this classwarfare between private sector workers and public...good move on their part
This is all about greed...GE paid not a dime in taxs then moves a division to china....bah...anyone naive enough to blame this on the middleclass or the working class has been drinking too much teaparty tea and corporate koolaid

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This show's whose really drinking the koolaide.

MrVicchio said:

Why did these jobs move to China and other countries? Was it pure greed on the part of the investors, you know the ones who invest their money in hopes of making money back, or was it the cost of doing business here was getting so high that profitability had died?

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Good luck feeding your family on the salary of a Chinese worker making electronics.

Hatuey said:

Good luck feeding your family on the salary of a Chinese worker making electronics.

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Let's remember that worker salaries are only a small part of the overall cost of anything you buy. Think of an IPOD, the labor content is almost certainly less than 5%. In addition there are ADDITIONAL costs a company has when they build overseas. The cost of transportation, higher inventory levels, freight, logistical support etc.

I am not sure if many on this site have ever had to do the math and look at the many issues that go into offshoring.

When I read the posts on this site from folks who are probably more concerned about these issues than the average American I wonder if there is hope for any real solutions to our very real problems. If not, this will not be an American century and that should sadden us all.

washunut said:

Let's remember that worker salaries are only a small part of the overall cost of anything you buy. Think of an IPOD, the labor content is almost certainly less than 5%. In addition there are ADDITIONAL costs a company has when they build overseas. The cost of transportation, higher inventory levels, freight, logistical support etc.

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Actually the biggest costs for the consumer are the mark-ups made by pretty much everyone after it leaves the factory. Take a simple thing like veggies. A study here in Spain found that the farmer sold his veggies to the big whole sellers and chains for a fraction of what they sold it to the consumer. We are talking in some cases several 1000% mark up.

I am not sure if many on this site have ever had to do the math and look at the many issues that go into offshoring.

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Transportation and wages are key to this. If the transportation costs are too large then either you dont get the goods or the companies find closer to home production. As long as transporting stuff from China is so cheap on top of the cheap (slave) labour of China and the region in general, then that is where the goods will be made since the raw materials cost the same everywhere.

Only way you can really balance things out is either making cost of labour in China more expensive or making transportation of the goods so expensive that from an economics view is just as cheap to produce it at home.

MrVicchio said:

Why did these jobs move to China and other countries? Was it pure greed on the part of the investors, you know the ones who invest their money in hopes of making money back, or was it the cost of doing business here was getting so high that profitability had died?
Personally, I believe it was both. Investors don't invest if the rate of return is low. The rate was low because businesses couldn't compete paying the huge costs demanded by unions. Both have a share of the blame. What is your solution? Take money from people and "create" jobs without regard to profit?




This show's whose really drinking the koolaide.

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Mr V corporations made plenty of money here....they just flatout wanted more....pure greed....and it all started when they tied CEO pay to the stock market performance...first thing they did to falsely inflate their stocks is fire and layoff employees and work what was left to death...getting rid of benefits pensions making as many employees underpaid, underemployed and overworked as they could all to increase the bottom line and thier bonus....you better believe this was all out of greed. They have contracts that pay them millions for failing...and you and others have the balls to rail on union workers as greedy ???? I find your blind support for the not only just greedy but many times criminally greedy and the cause of the mess this country is now in absurd. Anyone that tries to tell me that Unions and the working class and seniors is the cause for the hole this country is in...it falls on deaf ears...because its flatout not true...corporations and the rich have milked everything they could out of us in a variety of ways.
Its not only what theyve done to workers and the middle class....what amazes me the most...is that intelligent people like you and turtle and many other conservatives on this forum ....wont even acknowledge the greatest threat to this country and your family that our corporations have unleashed on the world...and thats the soon to be greatest military power on earth...COMMUNIST CHINA.....its the greatest threat to americas freedom in our history and its right around the corner....all out of greed. You all just blindly cheer every single thing corporations and the rich do and want like its all good.
You have conservatives that incessantly harp that anyone that isnt rich is a lazy parasite, thats as disengenuous as any statement utterered on this forum and frankly thats the main reason I turned off of republicans.....My father was a disabled WW2 vet who busted his ass every day all his life to give us what he could...he was NOT LAZY or a thief or a scumbag or a dog in the street and he was much more man than the soft ass's that sit around in plush offices plotting and scheming to squeeze another buck out of everything and anything that moves.

washunut said:

Hay, you are living in a past century. I don't presume to have the answers, but America is now part of a global economy. Even when jobs numbers were better in the last decade we were hiding the fact that Americans were losing jobs, like in the auto industry that paid 40-50/ per hour including benefits and when they lost those jobs had only the skills to be Wal mart greeters at $8/ hour. We have propped up the society on debt both public and private and now are at the point where that no longer works.

So the reality is Americans have traded the standard of living of the middle class who made things for getting that "stuff" cheaper when built in Asia. People who want to blame bankers and call them greedy should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they supported "made in america" or if they were happy to buy foreign made goods. Ask them if they were willing to pay a few percent more to support the local hardware store or if they shop at Home Depot or Wal Mart.

After saying all that then ask how the worker who took a haircut from 40/hour to 8/hour ( if he/she still has a job) if they are fine giving workers that they support through higher property taxes.

Talk about "shared sacrifice" what hypocrites some people are on this topic. Seems you think everyone should sacrifice but government workers.

Click to expand...

You do bring up many good issues. At the core of your post is the idea that American consumers have made choices and are now living with the results of those choices. One can make a case that shopping at Wal Mart over the local hardware or mom and pop grocery is indeed voting. However, much of this was done with stealth and the opposite of any sort of national debate as to the consequences of such actions. It is interesting that the people who had the most to lose from cheap foreign products made oversees and shipped back to big box stores were union workers in American plants who eventually lost their jobs because of such economic trends. I wonder if they had a choice - and the realities had been explained to them - what the reaction would have been?

Ross Perot tried to warn us in 1992 with his comments about NAFTA and the big sucking sound of jobs leaving the USA. Lots of folks - 20% of the electorate listened to him. The problem is that not enough of them stayed in thee game and changed their personal buying habits.

As to me living in another century, I want to go back to the 18th century..... at least in using something from the 18th century and I do NOT mean those silly looking tri-cornered hats. There was a document written then called the Constitution of the USA and in it there are mechanisms to protect American businesses and workers. Its about time we used them.

haymarket said:

You do bring up many good issues. At the core of your post is the idea that American consumers have made choices and are now living with the results of those choices. One can make a case that shopping at Wal Mart over the local hardware or mom and pop grocery is indeed voting. However, much of this was done with stealth and the opposite of any sort of national debate as to the consequences of such actions. It is interesting that the people who had the most to lose from cheap foreign products made oversees and shipped back to big box stores were union workers in American plants who eventually lost their jobs because of such economic trends. I wonder if they had a choice - and the realities had been explained to them - what the reaction would have been?

Ross Perot tried to warn us in 1992 with his comments about NAFTA and the big sucking sound of jobs leaving the USA. Lots of folks - 20% of the electorate listened to him. The problem is that not enough of them stayed in thee game and changed their personal buying habits.

As to me living in another century, I want to go back to the 18th century..... at least in using something from the 18th century and I do NOT mean those silly looking tri-cornered hats. There was a document written then called the Constitution of the USA and in it there are mechanisms to protect American businesses and workers. Its about time we used them.

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We all got sucked in unknowingly...it was subtle at first....good marketing..corporate gamesmanship, media silence...but aside from that it was awful hard for a family of 4 for a dad working just getting by to turn down that Goldstar tv for 299.00 from Korea and buy the same sized Sylvania made in the USA for 450.00...at first me included...we didnt realize we were buying foriegn stuff...most of it had the same familiar names when it first started...

lpast said:

We all got sucked in unknowingly...it was subtle at first....good marketing..corporate gamesmanship, media silence...but aside from that it was awful hard for a family of 4 for a dad working just getting by to turn down that Goldstar tv for 299.00 from Korea and buy the same sized Sylvania made in the USA for 450.00...at first me included...we didnt realize we were buying foriegn stuff...most of it had the same familiar names when it first started...

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Exactly. This was not done so much as the result of rational choice after studying the alternatives and possible implications. But it is what it is and now we are living in the midst of it.

Is it too late to do something about this? And if not, what can be done?

I suggest using the Constitutional powers given Congress to regulate imports and protect American jobs. At least as part of the solution.

haymarket said:

Exactly. This was not done so much as the result of rational choice after studying the alternatives and possible implications. But it is what it is and now we are living in the midst of it.

Is it too late to do something about this? And if not, what can be done?

I suggest using the Constitutional powers given Congress to regulate imports and protect American jobs. At least as part of the solution.

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The only way to slow this down now...is to make importing cheap chinese crap as expensive to buy as american made....
What happens one day when china tells our corporations to get out of china and all your factories equiptment and property belong to us...I can feel that happening in the not to distant future

PeteEU said:

Actually the biggest costs for the consumer are the mark-ups made by pretty much everyone after it leaves the factory. Take a simple thing like veggies. A study here in Spain found that the farmer sold his veggies to the big whole sellers and chains for a fraction of what they sold it to the consumer. We are talking in some cases several 1000% mark up.



Transportation and wages are key to this. If the transportation costs are too large then either you dont get the goods or the companies find closer to home production. As long as transporting stuff from China is so cheap on top of the cheap (slave) labour of China and the region in general, then that is where the goods will be made since the raw materials cost the same everywhere.

Only way you can really balance things out is either making cost of labour in China more expensive or making transportation of the goods so expensive that from an economics view is just as cheap to produce it at home.

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Now you have stumbled onto a truth. This is why the US government is doing all it can to devalue the dollar versus other currencies. If the EU was not such a mess we would have been more successful.