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Thread: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

  1. #21
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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Hay, you are living in a past century. I don't presume to have the answers, but America is now part of a global economy. Even when jobs numbers were better in the last decade we were hiding the fact that Americans were losing jobs, like in the auto industry that paid 40-50/ per hour including benefits and when they lost those jobs had only the skills to be Wal mart greeters at $8/ hour. We have propped up the society on debt both public and private and now are at the point where that no longer works.

    So the reality is Americans have traded the standard of living of the middle class who made things for getting that "stuff" cheaper when built in Asia. People who want to blame bankers and call them greedy should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they supported "made in america" or if they were happy to buy foreign made goods. Ask them if they were willing to pay a few percent more to support the local hardware store or if they shop at Home Depot or Wal Mart.

    After saying all that then ask how the worker who took a haircut from 40/hour to 8/hour ( if he/she still has a job) if they are fine giving workers that they support through higher property taxes.

    Talk about "shared sacrifice" what hypocrites some people are on this topic. Seems you think everyone should sacrifice but government workers.
    You do bring up many good issues. At the core of your post is the idea that American consumers have made choices and are now living with the results of those choices. One can make a case that shopping at Wal Mart over the local hardware or mom and pop grocery is indeed voting. However, much of this was done with stealth and the opposite of any sort of national debate as to the consequences of such actions. It is interesting that the people who had the most to lose from cheap foreign products made oversees and shipped back to big box stores were union workers in American plants who eventually lost their jobs because of such economic trends. I wonder if they had a choice - and the realities had been explained to them - what the reaction would have been?

    Ross Perot tried to warn us in 1992 with his comments about NAFTA and the big sucking sound of jobs leaving the USA. Lots of folks - 20% of the electorate listened to him. The problem is that not enough of them stayed in thee game and changed their personal buying habits.

    As to me living in another century, I want to go back to the 18th century..... at least in using something from the 18th century and I do NOT mean those silly looking tri-cornered hats. There was a document written then called the Constitution of the USA and in it there are mechanisms to protect American businesses and workers. Its about time we used them.
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-22-11 at 08:08 AM.
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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You do bring up many good issues. At the core of your post is the idea that American consumers have made choices and are now living with the results of those choices. One can make a case that shopping at Wal Mart over the local hardware or mom and pop grocery is indeed voting. However, much of this was done with stealth and the opposite of any sort of national debate as to the consequences of such actions. It is interesting that the people who had the most to lose from cheap foreign products made oversees and shipped back to big box stores were union workers in American plants who eventually lost their jobs because of such economic trends. I wonder if they had a choice - and the realities had been explained to them - what the reaction would have been?

    Ross Perot tried to warn us in 1992 with his comments about NAFTA and the big sucking sound of jobs leaving the USA. Lots of folks - 20% of the electorate listened to him. The problem is that not enough of them stayed in thee game and changed their personal buying habits.

    As to me living in another century, I want to go back to the 18th century..... at least in using something from the 18th century and I do NOT mean those silly looking tri-cornered hats. There was a document written then called the Constitution of the USA and in it there are mechanisms to protect American businesses and workers. Its about time we used them.
    We all got sucked in unknowingly...it was subtle at first....good marketing..corporate gamesmanship, media silence...but aside from that it was awful hard for a family of 4 for a dad working just getting by to turn down that Goldstar tv for 299.00 from Korea and buy the same sized Sylvania made in the USA for 450.00...at first me included...we didnt realize we were buying foriegn stuff...most of it had the same familiar names when it first started...

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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    We all got sucked in unknowingly...it was subtle at first....good marketing..corporate gamesmanship, media silence...but aside from that it was awful hard for a family of 4 for a dad working just getting by to turn down that Goldstar tv for 299.00 from Korea and buy the same sized Sylvania made in the USA for 450.00...at first me included...we didnt realize we were buying foriegn stuff...most of it had the same familiar names when it first started...
    Exactly. This was not done so much as the result of rational choice after studying the alternatives and possible implications. But it is what it is and now we are living in the midst of it.

    Is it too late to do something about this? And if not, what can be done?

    I suggest using the Constitutional powers given Congress to regulate imports and protect American jobs. At least as part of the solution.
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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Exactly. This was not done so much as the result of rational choice after studying the alternatives and possible implications. But it is what it is and now we are living in the midst of it.

    Is it too late to do something about this? And if not, what can be done?

    I suggest using the Constitutional powers given Congress to regulate imports and protect American jobs. At least as part of the solution.

    The only way to slow this down now...is to make importing cheap chinese crap as expensive to buy as american made....
    What happens one day when china tells our corporations to get out of china and all your factories equiptment and property belong to us...I can feel that happening in the not to distant future

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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually the biggest costs for the consumer are the mark-ups made by pretty much everyone after it leaves the factory. Take a simple thing like veggies. A study here in Spain found that the farmer sold his veggies to the big whole sellers and chains for a fraction of what they sold it to the consumer. We are talking in some cases several 1000% mark up.



    Transportation and wages are key to this. If the transportation costs are too large then either you dont get the goods or the companies find closer to home production. As long as transporting stuff from China is so cheap on top of the cheap (slave) labour of China and the region in general, then that is where the goods will be made since the raw materials cost the same everywhere.

    Only way you can really balance things out is either making cost of labour in China more expensive or making transportation of the goods so expensive that from an economics view is just as cheap to produce it at home.
    Now you have stumbled onto a truth. This is why the US government is doing all it can to devalue the dollar versus other currencies. If the EU was not such a mess we would have been more successful.

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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ahh yes, the "blame Obama for everything" crowd pipes up right on schedule.
    It's Obama's policies that are hurting the middle class. Who else are we supposed to blame?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's Obama's policies that are hurting the middle class. Who else are we supposed to blame?
    Yeah, sure, right - cause they were doing so amazingly well before Obama took that oath of office.
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    Re: Middle Class Death Watch -- 33 Frightening Economic Developments

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Yeah, sure, right - cause they were doing so amazingly well before Obama took that oath of office.
    You know that as leader you get to much credit when things go well and to much blame when things go badly. Goes with the territory, if Obama and his supporters do not to bear that burden, then he/they should step aside and get someone who is willing to be accountable.

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