Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

TheDemSocialist said:

Everything that the cops do that looks unfavorable in your opinion is edited...
Please tell us how this is "edited"?

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What happened before hand?

What happened after?



And, I'll do my best to argue like Im from the OWS side...

"You can't prove its not edited can you?"

Caine said:

What happened before hand?

What happened after?



And, I'll do my best to argue like Im from the OWS side...

"You can't prove its not edited can you?"

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Well this doesnt really matter what happened before or after...

The man was walking up and down the street doing nothing..... What was he doing that was so wrong?

TheDemSocialist said:

Well this doesnt really matter what happened before or after...

The man was walking up and down the street doing nothing..... What was he doing that was so wrong?

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Standing in front of the trajectory of a rubber bullet? :mrgreen:

OWS has transformed public opinion

"For the first time since the Great Depression, the majority of Americans favor wealth redistribution."

"for the first time in more than half a century, a broad cross-section of the American public is talking about the concentration of income, wealth and political power at the top.

Score a big one for the Occupiers.

Even more startling is the change in public opinion. Not since the 1930s has a majority of Americans called for redistribution of income or wealth. But according to a recent New York Times/CBS News poll, an astounding 66 percent of Americans said the nation’s wealth should be more evenly distributed.

A similar majority believes the rich should pay more in taxes. According to a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, even a majority of people who describe themselves as Republicans believe taxes should be increased on the rich.

I remember the days when even raising the subject of inequality made you a “class warrior.” Now, it seems, most Americans have become class warriors."

Catawba said:

OWS has transformed public opinion

"For the first time since the Great Depression, the majority of Americans favor wealth redistribution."

"for the first time in more than half a century, a broad cross-section of the American public is talking about the concentration of income, wealth and political power at the top.

Score a big one for the Occupiers.

Even more startling is the change in public opinion. Not since the 1930s has a majority of Americans called for redistribution of income or wealth. But according to a recent New York Times/CBS News poll, an astounding 66 percent of Americans said the nation’s wealth should be more evenly distributed.

A similar majority believes the rich should pay more in taxes. According to a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, even a majority of people who describe themselves as Republicans believe taxes should be increased on the rich.

I remember the days when even raising the subject of inequality made you a “class warrior.” Now, it seems, most Americans have become class warriors."

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God damn... I've sunk down to my lowest faith in humanity in a LONG TIME!!!

Cause of course, BILLIONAIRES and EVEN OBAMA support this you KNOW it's bad news...

Let's just officially shred the constitution and everything that made this country a beacon the world over. Let's rename it also, since it's clear now that these people desire it to be called the "fascist states of america". Stupid people.

Anyone that buys into this being a good idea is either a lazy POS or a moron that doesn't know what goes along with this "redistribution of wealth" concept.

Oh, and BTW, those rich people asking to get taxed more : THEY WILL EXEMPT THEMSELVES FROM THESE TAXES as well.

What these people want is to take the middle classes wealth : families earning 250-500k per year and redistribute it amongst the poorest.

Yay... I can't wait for capital controls, and my food card that will never have enough funds for the food... I can't wait for the lineups. Oh, and I especially can't wait for the secret police who will ensure that everyone is happy with the new policies.

"Oh, you went broke paying all these new taxes, don't worry, we've got a nice warm bed for you in the freedom ghetto"

Hail Obama. (Or the person that comes after him)

BmanMcfly said:

God damn... I've sunk down to my lowest faith in humanity in a LONG TIME!!!

Cause of course, BILLIONAIRES and EVEN OBAMA support this you KNOW it's bad news...

Let's just officially shred the constitution and everything that made this country a beacon the world over. Let's rename it also, since it's clear now that these people desire it to be called the "fascist states of america". Stupid people.

Anyone that buys into this being a good idea is either a lazy POS or a moron that doesn't know what goes along with this "redistribution of wealth" concept.

Oh, and BTW, those rich people asking to get taxed more : THEY WILL EXEMPT THEMSELVES FROM THESE TAXES as well.

What these people want is to take the middle classes wealth : families earning 250-500k per year and redistribute it amongst the poorest.

Yay... I can't wait for capital controls, and my food card that will never have enough funds for the food... I can't wait for the lineups. Oh, and I especially can't wait for the secret police who will ensure that everyone is happy with the new policies.

"Oh, you went broke paying all these new taxes, don't worry, we've got a nice warm bed for you in the freedom ghetto"

Hail Obama. (Or the person that comes after him)

Click to expand...

Kind of going off the deep end there Bman over tax proposals less progressive than our forefathers instituted and supported from the 1930's to the 1980's, don't ya think? So before you freak out (given your equation regarding progressiveness of taxes and freedom) we will still be more free than our parents and grandparents were.

TheDemSocialist said:

Well this doesnt really matter what happened before or after...

The man was walking up and down the street doing nothing..... What was he doing that was so wrong?

Click to expand...

So, If I rob someone at gun point, and then 5 minutes later Im just walking down the street away from the crime... Im not doing anything wrong right?

:roll:

BmanMcfly said:

God damn... I've sunk down to my lowest faith in humanity in a LONG TIME!!!

Cause of course, BILLIONAIRES and EVEN OBAMA support this you KNOW it's bad news...

Let's just officially shred the constitution and everything that made this country a beacon the world over. Let's rename it also, since it's clear now that these people desire it to be called the "fascist states of america". Stupid people.

Anyone that buys into this being a good idea is either a lazy POS or a moron that doesn't know what goes along with this "redistribution of wealth" concept.

Oh, and BTW, those rich people asking to get taxed more : THEY WILL EXEMPT THEMSELVES FROM THESE TAXES as well.

What these people want is to take the middle classes wealth : families earning 250-500k per year and redistribute it amongst the poorest.

Yay... I can't wait for capital controls, and my food card that will never have enough funds for the food... I can't wait for the lineups. Oh, and I especially can't wait for the secret police who will ensure that everyone is happy with the new policies.

"Oh, you went broke paying all these new taxes, don't worry, we've got a nice warm bed for you in the freedom ghetto"

Hail Obama. (Or the person that comes after him)

Click to expand...

Families making 250-500k per year are "middle class".

God... Ive never felt so poor in my life than just now....

Caine said:

Families making 250-500k per year are "middle class".

God... Ive never felt so poor in my life than just now....

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What are you talking about POOR...your a cop...YOUR RICH...you have been perpetrating a felony on taxpayers every single day your on duty...YOUR WAAAAAAAAY OVERPAID...and its the likes of you that have caused this country to be in the malais its in....Just ask any teaparty congressman and gov and cheerleader and turtledude....
Your disgustingly overpaid and who the F do you think you are wanting health benefits for your wife and kids and a pension...get a life and go out and get a real job dude

Catawba said:

Kind of going off the deep end there Bman over tax proposals less progressive than our forefathers instituted and supported from the 1930's to the 1980's, don't ya think? So before you freak out (given your equation regarding progressiveness of taxes and freedom) we will still be more free than our parents and grandparents were.

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Ugh... We are already taxed to a point FAR BEYOND even the taxes that sparked the revolution. So, let's add MORE taxes on the "rich" (re: middle -> upper-middle class). It's a repeated fact that when taxes go down there are more people that can afford to pay taxes and so tax receipts go up.

The media focus on the OWS protests has been on the communist elements within...

Tell me, do you have a singular example where more "communistic" pushes have created more freedoms for the people living in those systems ?

The ONLY tax that would actually target the rich would be some sort of tobin tax or investment sales tax...

Caine said:

So, If I rob someone at gun point, and then 5 minutes later Im just walking down the street away from the crime... Im not doing anything wrong right?

:roll:

Click to expand...

Do you have any evidence to suggest this to be the case?
Have you ever been to one of these protests? I'd wager not... It's surprisingly common for cops to beat on protesters for doing nothing more than being present. This one just got caught on film.

Caine said:

Families making 250-500k per year are "middle class".

God... Ive never felt so poor in my life than just now....

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Well, middle class would be lower, maybe 100-125k as a threshold... If you got 2 kids and are making less than that with a mortgage, you're living on a budget...

Caine said:

So, If I rob someone at gun point, and then 5 minutes later Im just walking down the street away from the crime... Im not doing anything wrong right?

:roll:

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Yep this guy clearly robbed someone. I mean look at what hes doing. Walking in-front of cops, thats real smart to do after you rob someone.

BmanMcfly said:

Well, middle class would be lower, maybe 100-125k as a threshold... If you got 2 kids and are making less than that with a mortgage, you're living on a budget...

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I am living on a budget....

But then again. I don't need alot of the **** people think they need.

I haven't bought new clothes in years... why do I need clothes?
I don't go out do "da cluuuub" and spend 200 bucks every weekend......that **** is for kids.
I've had the same car for 7 years, paid off, no car payments.
We finally got all of our credit card debt payed out from when we went from being a Sergeant (army) and Senior Airman(airforce) in the military to living off of my 400 bucks a week in the Academy, now THAT require budgeting.


Its not my problem the rest of my peers in poorness can't stand the thought of being on a budget.

BmanMcfly said:

Ugh... We are already taxed to a point FAR BEYOND even the taxes that sparked the revolution. So, let's add MORE taxes on the "rich" (re: middle -> upper-middle class). It's a repeated fact that when taxes go down there are more people that can afford to pay taxes and so tax receipts go up.

The media focus on the OWS protests has been on the communist elements within...

Tell me, do you have a singular example where more "communistic" pushes have created more freedoms for the people living in those systems ?

The ONLY tax that would actually target the rich would be some sort of tobin tax or investment sales tax...

Click to expand...

Back to reality, no one is proposing taxes anywhere near as progressive as they were during the period of the strongest middle class in our history. Was that communism?

BmanMcfly said:

Do you have any evidence to suggest this to be the case?
Have you ever been to one of these protests? I'd wager not... It's surprisingly common for cops to beat on protesters for doing nothing more than being present. This one just got caught on film.

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My point is...

Without knowing what was going on before that 25 second period of him walking and then getting shot, its hard to understand if the shooting of the bean bag round was appropriate.

TheDemSocialist said:

Yep this guy clearly robbed someone. I mean look at what hes doing. Walking in-front of cops, thats real smart to do after you rob someone.

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If you can't figure out what I was saying, thats your problem.

Caine said:

If you can't figure out what I was saying, thats your problem.

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Neither do you...
The whole point is if this guy was seriously doing something truly wrong the last thing personally i would like to do is pull out my camera and stand right in-front of the cops...

Catawba said:

Kind of going off the deep end there Bman over tax proposals less progressive than our forefathers instituted and supported from the 1930's to the 1980's, don't ya think? So before you freak out (given your equation regarding progressiveness of taxes and freedom) we will still be more free than our parents and grandparents were.

Click to expand...

I'll illustrate my point by looking back to the start of the income tax... What did it start out as?? 5% income tax? On the "wealthy"??

What has it turned into now?? How much are the "wealthy" paying in these income taxes again??

Caine said:

I am living on a budget....

But then again. I don't need alot of the **** people think they need.

I haven't bought new clothes in years... why do I need clothes?
I don't go out do "da cluuuub" and spend 200 bucks every weekend......that **** is for kids.
I've had the same car for 7 years, paid off, no car payments.
We finally got all of our credit card debt payed out from when we went from being a Sergeant (army) and Senior Airman(airforce) in the military to living off of my 400 bucks a week in the Academy, now THAT require budgeting.

Its not my problem the rest of my peers in poorness can't stand the thought of being on a budget.

Click to expand...

Honestly, if you're making less than 50k per year today, you're in the 'poor' category... and I didn't mean like people living on 2 125k incomes are in a tight squeeze budget like living on 400$ / week (I've lived through that pain for YEARS).

The point I was getting at, was more that middle class people are living in a budget where they are living comfortably and can keep some extra for yourself. Really, now, at this point, if you're making 100k as a family, sure you can get by, but you are going to be making some sacrifices...

Maybe we need a better definition of what makes a person "poor" vs middle class vs upper middle class vs "rich"...

Ultimately I view it as a function of how much of your income goes into "sustenance"... Like someone making 400$/ week, especially these days you're probably spending about 75% of your income on food, housing and bills. Though it also depends on the "what foods" you are buying.

Sure you can live off KD and hotdogs, but the health will begin to suffer.

So, sorry about the confusion in my position, it's more through a lack of definition of where middle class starts.

But, that doesn't change the point I was originally making... these people calling for "wealth redistribution", they clearly don't understand that if someone like Warren Buffet is calling for these same things and saying "tax me", is clearly because he's already thought of the loopholes he could use for THAT taxing system, and will ULTIMATELY be grabbing money from those in the 60-85% and distributing THAT to the lower 40% so that EVERYONE will be broke and dependent on government.

THAT IS the major concern and why I am withdrawing my support from that movement as it stands, however, I understand that to a certain extent there are ALOT of people that have had their views co-opted and misrepresented to suit the agenda's of the very people they are positioned to fight.

BmanMcfly said:

I'll illustrate my point by looking back to the start of the income tax... What did it start out as?? 5% income tax? On the "wealthy"??

What has it turned into now?? How much are the "wealthy" paying in these income taxes again??

Click to expand...

What we have now is less progressive taxes than the period between the 1930's and the 1980's. Is that the communist period that you are afraid we might return to?

Risky Thicket said:

Another absolutist. :roll: Have you seen anyone at all, anyone in OWS, protesting small business? There may be a few who have protested against capitalism though I haven't heard nor seen it. I understand, American, that you fully back Wall Street and all it's actions. I have no doubt you feel Madoff was wronged. I fully believe that you support maximum profit above all else. If a corporation can get billions from the people through the government and later **** over the American people, you dig it. Right? We got that. But no one that I know of protests a local pizza guy making good money during the protest.

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And when the debt increase $13B, you cheer.

Catawba said:

What we have now is less progressive taxes than the period between the 1930's and the 1980's. Is that the communist period that you are afraid we might return to?

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I accept that the taxing system is all messed up... to put it lightly. The solutions of "wealth redistribution" in ANY form is actually a TERRIBLE idea, and that's what the OWS protesters are getting attention over.

So, this is very much UNLIKE the situation of the 80's, even the 30's... at the most tame this is like the passage of the original income tax, which after the first iteration which was justified as a wartime tax. Something that could be justifiable.

I'm talking about the 2% over 4000$ income... which is equivalent to about 100k today, look at the monstrosity that's become. The closest political "solution" is cain's 9-9-9 plan, that he was spouting... by the margin that this increased this would become a 30-30-30 plan REAL QUICK.

God knows what Obama's plan ACTUALLY entails...

I'm saying that this will wipe out the economy, and render the people little better off than the peasants were following the russian communist takeover, or maybe Mao's "Great leap forward".

Maybe a new large scale war would distract the people long enough that they won't really remember what things were like before.

BmanMcfly said:

God knows what Obama's plan ACTUALLY entails...

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Obama, the OWS and the majority of Americans all want the same thing, a tax system that restores some of the progressiveness that has been cut away over the last 30 years. The disparity of wealth, not this great since the 1920's is not working for the middle class or our economy.

Caine said:

What happened before hand?

What happened after?



And, I'll do my best to argue like Im from the OWS side...

"You can't prove its not edited can you?"

Click to expand...

Edited? Most edited thing youve ever seen? A 30 minute CNN documentary is edited. This is a clean 30 second clip of a guy ASKING the cops if its okay to film, then filming, then shot unprovoked.
Don't tell me, he was doing something dangerous and illegal just before filming, and the police stood still as if he were doing nothing wrong to throw him off to trap him into a false sense of security from which to neutralize him.