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Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

Helix said:
the idea of the American dream keeps people working and pacified, because they feel they have a chance within the system to better themselves and the lives of their children.

if the illusion is broken, there will be unrest. put simply, if the average person feels he or she has little to no chance of ever doing better than scraping by, that person will be a lot less likely to let a small percentage of people hold most of the wealth.
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The autumn of our discontent..................
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Real quick and simple:

1) The Housing Bubble, which when popped, left 25% of all Americans upside down bigtime in their mortgages. Not only did those people cut back on their own buying, some of which had been elevated due to second mortgages taken out during the boom years, but many now saw default as their only way out.

2) Lack of confidence at every level. We no longer had an underlyuing manufacturing base to fall back on. It has been slipping away while we made money trading stocks in unprofitable internet companies, and then selling property back and forth to each other. Big reality slam that came with the bubble burst.

3) Debt. We created a pending nanny state collapse. This further undermines confidence.

A real tri-fecta we created.
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1) The Housing Bubble was not a natural catastrophe
2) The bubble was caused by an excess of confidence, not a lack of confidence
3) Govt debt had nothing to do with the collapse
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Maybe slow down your assault on post-count records. And put "pwnage" whre the sun don't shine, if there is room left with your head in the way.

If your argument is why did GS get government money, and Wachovia not, then have at it in a debate about such. Better political connections can count. But as I pointed out, in the end, it does not matter. At the end of the day, GS was still standing, and Wachovia needed to merge. That's business. If that makes GS a winner, and Wachovia a loser, so be it.
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Once again, you twist and spin to avoid the point, which is simple - you were wrong

You said the banks which made the biggest mistakes failed first. You are wrong. Most of the banks who made the biggest mistakes did not fail at all. Even you admit that "GS was still standing"
 
Eighty Deuce said:
The banks failed because of the housing bubble burst. That would be "1)a)". You need to stop and think a little bit better. I am not going to write a book for you.

Again, I repeat, for every bank that lost money, another bank, or financial institution, made money.
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Why did the housing bubble burst?

It wasnt a natural disaster or an Act of God.

And you are wrong to say that "for every bank that lost money, another bank, or financial institution, made money" Finance is not a zero sum game.
 
Mach said:
What? I was under the assumption that it was and is the responsibility of the federal government to regulate Wall Street (the financial industry), to ensure economic stability, good practice, etc.

You're stuck because you both have to admit it was the federal governments responsibility, but worse, had you given that responsibility to Wall Street instead, you WOULD be justified in blaming them. But you didn't, you took it away and gave it to the fed, you can't have it both ways.

If you claim hendge funds and big banks engaing in legal activities are RESPONSIBLE for the economic downturn, you are pulling my leg. You can't be serious...
You are responsible. You should have ensured your government was handling the charges it was given. Who watches the watchers?
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And that's why they are protesting. Because the govt not only turned a blind eye to the unethical dealings on Wall Street, but also encouraged it. The politicians acted in the interests of the Wall St interests that supported their campaigns instead of the interests of the people
 
1Perry said:
They are very irresponsible and want someone else to pay for their irresponsibility. Granted, that's exactly what the big banks did also.
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The big difference is that the banks got a bailout and the rules haven't changed. Wall St is still free to engage in the same type of dealing that got us into this mess because they have bought off the politicians
 
Truckstop said:
If all this is true it just proves they are idiots to boot. Wall street doesn't make the rules. They should be marching on DC if they want money spent on people not on bailouts. WTF is the point? Do they think the big wall street companies will just say "eh your right, were not going to use our influence anymore in dc". Just a group of idiot hating on the wrong people.
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No, the politicians that Wall St pays makes the rules

And the rightwing likes it that way
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Oh, is that what they are protesting ? These same fools had no trouble with unions contributing to politics, did they ? How'd that work out for all the municipalities across this great land, and the taxpayers that footed the bill for the bloated salaries and benefits ?

95% of TARP is paid back. But let's just take money from someone who earned it, at the point of a government gun if need be, and give it to someone else to "meet their needs". Then they will finally let go of the gubmit teat ?

At a TEA party rally, you see folks who want nothing from government except their freedom. At these moonbat 99%'er rallies, you see freeloaders everywhere, all expecting government to redistribute someone else's wealth to them. Parasites.
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As I've said before, for all the talk about how the Tea Party is a grass roots movement, the truth is they know who is funding their campaigns, and will defend the corporations no matter what.
 
1Perry said:
Unions give millions and millions to influence elections. Be for this or against it or be dismissed.

Public-Employees Union Now Leads All Groups in Independent Election Outlays

Public-Employees Union Is Now Campaign's Big Spender - WSJ.com

Do you support ending monied influence or only when you disagree with where they spend the money?
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Like most on the left, I beleive that only individuals should be able to give to campaigns

I'd like to remind you that the reason why orgs like unions are allowed to give to campaigns is due to laws proposed by and passed under Nixon, and SCOTUS decisions that were supported by the rightwing justices
 
1Perry said:
Right, big money influencing elections do not actually bother you. Your complaints are dismissed.
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And big money influencing elections do not really bother you either. Your complaints are one-sided and dismissed
 
sangha said:
1) The Housing Bubble was not a natural catastrophe
2) The bubble was caused by an excess of confidence, not a lack of confidence
3) Govt debt had nothing to do with the collapse
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My 3 points were in answer to a question about what I felt has caused the Recession, and why it has sustained.

See you are still slaving away at that post count ;)
 
washunut said:
From the statistics I have seen, the jobless rate for college graduates is much lower than the overall rate. We also know that college graduates come in all shapes and sizes. For example, I am told that some number of the protesters are current college kids. If they were dedicated students they would be in class doing their work.

Again, my concern is the feeling by so many in America that they can't succeed.
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The jobless rates are high for everyone. And I'm told that a number of all protests are current college kids, including teabaggers.

So what?

They are protesting the fact that in a nation that is supposed to have a govt by the people, of the people, and for the people, we have a govt that is controlled by big money interests

Our health care system is controlled by insurance and pharma corps, because that's what Wall St wants
Our financial system is controlled by banks and financial services corps, because that's what Wall St wants
Out food system is controlled by large argricultural corps, because that what Wall st wants
Our energy system is controlled by oil, gas, and coal corps, because that what Wall St wants
Our media is controlled by a few large corps, because that what Wall St wants

And our political system is controlled by Wall St, and the rightwing approves
 
Eighty Deuce said:
My 3 points were in answer to a question about what I felt has caused the Recession, and why it has sustained.

See you are still slaving away at that post count ;)
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Your 3 points are nothing but slogans that you repeat but do not understand. The housing bubble did not just pop up out of nowhere. it was not a natural occurance, but one that was created by Wall St and the politicians who serve them
 
sangha said:
The jobless rates are high for everyone. And I'm told that a number of all protests are current college kids, including teabaggers.

So what?

They are protesting the fact that in a nation that is supposed to have a govt by the people, of the people, and for the people, we have a govt that is controlled by big money interests

Our health care system is controlled by insurance and pharma corps, because that's what Wall St wants
Our financial system is controlled by banks and financial services corps, because that's what Wall St wants
Out food system is controlled by large argricultural corps, because that what Wall st wants
Our energy system is controlled by oil, gas, and coal corps, because that what Wall St wants
Our media is controlled by a few large corps, because that what Wall St wants

And our political system is controlled by Wall St, and the rightwing approves
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Of course we are controlled by money. We are a capitalist nation, always have been and always will be.
 
sangha said:
The jobless rates are high for everyone. And I'm told that a number of all protests are current college kids, including teabaggers.

So what?

They are protesting the fact that in a nation that is supposed to have a govt by the people, of the people, and for the people, we have a govt that is controlled by big money interests

Our health care system is controlled by insurance and pharma corps, because that's what Wall St wants
Our financial system is controlled by banks and financial services corps, because that's what Wall St wants
Out food system is controlled by large argricultural corps, because that what Wall st wants
Our energy system is controlled by oil, gas, and coal corps, because that what Wall St wants
Our media is controlled by a few large corps, because that what Wall St wants

And our political system is controlled by Wall St, and the rightwing approves
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Before you go to sleep at night do you check for boogiemen under your bed and in your closet? Who exactly is this Wall Street fellow that scares you?

In case you haven't ever looked at the federal government and its regulatory agencies, I will let you in on a little secret. Taxpayers have spent hundreds of billions regulating health care, the banking system, agribusiness and the energy industry. Half of the health care industry is funded directly by federal entitlement programs. How well has that worked out for us? We are in this epic economic collapse due to the idiots involved in the federal governments centralized planning. I love it when liberals and socialists say we need more centralized planning to fix all the f'in problems from the previous centralized planning. Putting faith in centralized planning makes as much sense as jumping in a taxi that is being driven by a blind guy without arms.
 
sangha said:
Capitalism requires socialism to work, which is why the bailouts were needed
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Privatizing the profits and socializing the costs. The American way since 1981 that is now the target of protest!!!
 
sangha said:
Your 3 points are nothing but slogans that you repeat but do not understand. The housing bubble did not just pop up out of nowhere. it was not a natural occurance, but one that was created by Wall St and the politicians who serve them
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Why do you give a pass to the fools that signed loan documents they didn't read and borrowed money they could never repay? Was there some clandestine government agency running around putting guns to the heads of ordinary folks while forcing them to buy the houses they couldn't afford?
 
conservativeguy said:
Before you go to sleep at night do you check for boogiemen under your bed and in your closet? Who exactly is this Wall Street fellow that scares you?

In case you haven't ever looked at the federal government and its regulatory agencies, I will let you in on a little secret. Taxpayers have spent hundreds of billions regulating health care, the banking system, agribusiness and the energy industry. Half of the health care industry is funded directly by federal entitlement programs. How well has that worked out for us? We are in this epic economic collapse due to the idiots involved in the federal governments centralized planning. I love it when liberals and socialists say we need more centralized planning to fix all the f'in problems from the previous centralized planning. Putting faith in centralized planning makes as much sense as jumping in a taxi that is being driven by a blind guy without arms.
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Your need to make up stuff about me just shows how frightened you are by the facts and your need to deny the truth

Nations that provide a higher level of funding for their health care systems provide a higher level of care for a cheaper price than ours does. The obvious truth is that socialized health care works better than what we have.

And the idiots in the govt are the politicians who are being bribed by Wall St and their corporate cronies.
 
conservativeguy said:
Why do you give a pass to the fools that signed loan documents they didn't read and borrowed money they could never repay? Was there some clandestine government agency running around putting guns to the heads of ordinary folks while forcing them to buy the houses they couldn't afford?
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Why do you give a pass to the banksters who loaned money to people they knew couldn't afford to pay back the loan?

Is there some clandestive republican organization running around putting a gun to your head forcing you to repeat their slogans?
 
Helix said:
my post is not a rallying cry; it's an observation.

in the case of the current protest, a lot of young people are graduating from college into a job market that offers them a chance to work fast food or wait tables if they're lucky. meanwhile, their college debt is crushing. that tends to get people a bit upset.
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The question is how much of that is their own fault.
 
conservativeguy said:
Why do you give a pass to the fools that signed loan documents they didn't read and borrowed money they could never repay? Was there some clandestine government agency running around putting guns to the heads of ordinary folks while forcing them to buy the houses they couldn't afford?
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Both can be argued at fault. The thing is though, if someone comes in and they are not qualified for the money they are looking for in the end it's up to the bank to say no.

They were being pressured to say yes, so that's where the third rung of blame comes in.
 
1Perry said:
Both can be argued at fault. The thing is though, if someone comes in and they are not qualified for the money they are looking for in the end it's up to the bank to say no.

They were being pressured to say yes, so that's where the third rung of blame comes in.
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Not just "pressured to say yes", but paid to say yes. Once Fannie and Freddie began their mission to enable these loans by buying them up, if you didn't make it, then your competitor did. You lost the sale and commission, on a loan where you essentially had no risk.
 
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