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Thread: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Do you have any evidence to suggest this to be the case?
    Have you ever been to one of these protests? I'd wager not... It's surprisingly common for cops to beat on protesters for doing nothing more than being present. This one just got caught on film.
    My point is...

    Without knowing what was going on before that 25 second period of him walking and then getting shot, its hard to understand if the shooting of the bean bag round was appropriate.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yep this guy clearly robbed someone. I mean look at what hes doing. Walking in-front of cops, thats real smart to do after you rob someone.
    If you can't figure out what I was saying, thats your problem.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    If you can't figure out what I was saying, thats your problem.
    Neither do you...
    The whole point is if this guy was seriously doing something truly wrong the last thing personally i would like to do is pull out my camera and stand right in-front of the cops...


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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Kind of going off the deep end there Bman over tax proposals less progressive than our forefathers instituted and supported from the 1930's to the 1980's, don't ya think? So before you freak out (given your equation regarding progressiveness of taxes and freedom) we will still be more free than our parents and grandparents were.
    I'll illustrate my point by looking back to the start of the income tax... What did it start out as?? 5% income tax? On the "wealthy"??

    What has it turned into now?? How much are the "wealthy" paying in these income taxes again??

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I am living on a budget....

    But then again. I don't need alot of the **** people think they need.

    I haven't bought new clothes in years... why do I need clothes?
    I don't go out do "da cluuuub" and spend 200 bucks every weekend......that **** is for kids.
    I've had the same car for 7 years, paid off, no car payments.
    We finally got all of our credit card debt payed out from when we went from being a Sergeant (army) and Senior Airman(airforce) in the military to living off of my 400 bucks a week in the Academy, now THAT require budgeting.

    Its not my problem the rest of my peers in poorness can't stand the thought of being on a budget.
    Honestly, if you're making less than 50k per year today, you're in the 'poor' category... and I didn't mean like people living on 2 125k incomes are in a tight squeeze budget like living on 400$ / week (I've lived through that pain for YEARS).

    The point I was getting at, was more that middle class people are living in a budget where they are living comfortably and can keep some extra for yourself. Really, now, at this point, if you're making 100k as a family, sure you can get by, but you are going to be making some sacrifices...

    Maybe we need a better definition of what makes a person "poor" vs middle class vs upper middle class vs "rich"...

    Ultimately I view it as a function of how much of your income goes into "sustenance"... Like someone making 400$/ week, especially these days you're probably spending about 75% of your income on food, housing and bills. Though it also depends on the "what foods" you are buying.

    Sure you can live off KD and hotdogs, but the health will begin to suffer.

    So, sorry about the confusion in my position, it's more through a lack of definition of where middle class starts.

    But, that doesn't change the point I was originally making... these people calling for "wealth redistribution", they clearly don't understand that if someone like Warren Buffet is calling for these same things and saying "tax me", is clearly because he's already thought of the loopholes he could use for THAT taxing system, and will ULTIMATELY be grabbing money from those in the 60-85% and distributing THAT to the lower 40% so that EVERYONE will be broke and dependent on government.

    THAT IS the major concern and why I am withdrawing my support from that movement as it stands, however, I understand that to a certain extent there are ALOT of people that have had their views co-opted and misrepresented to suit the agenda's of the very people they are positioned to fight.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    I'll illustrate my point by looking back to the start of the income tax... What did it start out as?? 5% income tax? On the "wealthy"??

    What has it turned into now?? How much are the "wealthy" paying in these income taxes again??
    What we have now is less progressive taxes than the period between the 1930's and the 1980's. Is that the communist period that you are afraid we might return to?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Another absolutist. Have you seen anyone at all, anyone in OWS, protesting small business? There may be a few who have protested against capitalism though I haven't heard nor seen it. I understand, American, that you fully back Wall Street and all it's actions. I have no doubt you feel Madoff was wronged. I fully believe that you support maximum profit above all else. If a corporation can get billions from the people through the government and later **** over the American people, you dig it. Right? We got that. But no one that I know of protests a local pizza guy making good money during the protest.
    And when the debt increase $13B, you cheer.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What we have now is less progressive taxes than the period between the 1930's and the 1980's. Is that the communist period that you are afraid we might return to?
    I accept that the taxing system is all messed up... to put it lightly. The solutions of "wealth redistribution" in ANY form is actually a TERRIBLE idea, and that's what the OWS protesters are getting attention over.

    So, this is very much UNLIKE the situation of the 80's, even the 30's... at the most tame this is like the passage of the original income tax, which after the first iteration which was justified as a wartime tax. Something that could be justifiable.

    I'm talking about the 2% over 4000$ income... which is equivalent to about 100k today, look at the monstrosity that's become. The closest political "solution" is cain's 9-9-9 plan, that he was spouting... by the margin that this increased this would become a 30-30-30 plan REAL QUICK.

    God knows what Obama's plan ACTUALLY entails...

    I'm saying that this will wipe out the economy, and render the people little better off than the peasants were following the russian communist takeover, or maybe Mao's "Great leap forward".

    Maybe a new large scale war would distract the people long enough that they won't really remember what things were like before.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    God knows what Obama's plan ACTUALLY entails...
    Obama, the OWS and the majority of Americans all want the same thing, a tax system that restores some of the progressiveness that has been cut away over the last 30 years. The disparity of wealth, not this great since the 1920's is not working for the middle class or our economy.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    What happened before hand?

    What happened after?



    And, I'll do my best to argue like Im from the OWS side...

    "You can't prove its not edited can you?"
    Edited? Most edited thing youve ever seen? A 30 minute CNN documentary is edited. This is a clean 30 second clip of a guy ASKING the cops if its okay to film, then filming, then shot unprovoked.
    Don't tell me, he was doing something dangerous and illegal just before filming, and the police stood still as if he were doing nothing wrong to throw him off to trap him into a false sense of security from which to neutralize him.

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