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Thread: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    This is what i find disturbing. These peaceful protesters came to protest a crime, yes a crime that was committed by the banks and wall-street, and they the protesters are portrayed as the criminals are ****ing kidding me?


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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    ...here is a list of all the banks that were acquired due to this crisis:

    1
    I counted 14 from this country alone. Now, being from Charlotte, I can speak of this, what do you think happens to a city like Charlotte when Wachovia closes?

    Think real hard.
    These banks made money hand-over-fist until the bubble burst. Then they failed, absorbed by other banks. All the Wachovia's around me are now Well's Fargo. BFD. The weaker businesses, aka the stupider ones, failed. That's business. Those that showed more wisdom did not. On top of which, the banks are Wall Street. Who am I supposed to cry for ?

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And bush* did nothing to stop it. Instead, he just pumped up the bubble until it burst
    LOL. "Bush" didn't pump the bubble. What he did was not stop it. Meanwhile a whole horde of Dem politicians resisted his calls to reform Fannie and Freddie.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    These banks made money hand-over-fist until the bubble burst. Then they failed, absorbed by other banks. All the Wachovia's around me are now Well's Fargo. BFD. The weaker businesses, aka the stupider ones, failed. That's business. Those that showed more wisdom did not. On top of which, the banks are Wall Street. Who am I supposed to cry for ?
    I thought you were concerned about the economy, but you are not concerned about lost jobs? You did not read anything I posted, did you? When a business closes, jobs are lost. When a company is absorbed, jobs are lost. You can call the people in that company stupid if you want, but they were buying Triple-A rated securities. You do not even know what that means though, so I do not know why I am bothering arguing with you.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    LOL. "Bush" didn't pump the bubble. What he did was not stop it. Meanwhile a whole horde of Dem politicians resisted his calls to reform Fannie and Freddie.
    USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership

    bush* even bragged about wanting to create an "ownership society". Don't worry about the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I thought you were concerned about the economy, but you are not concerned about lost jobs? You did not read anything I posted, did you? When a business closes, jobs are lost. When a company is absorbed, jobs are lost. You can call the people in that company stupid if you want, but they were buying Triple-A rated securities. You do not even know what that means though, so I do not know why I am bothering arguing with you.
    Who actually started the process of rating loans as triple A when they weren't? You know?

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I thought you were concerned about the economy, but you are not concerned about lost jobs? You did not read anything I posted, did you? When a business closes, jobs are lost. When a company is absorbed, jobs are lost. You can call the people in that company stupid if you want, but they were buying Triple-A rated securities. You do not even know what that means though, so I do not know why I am bothering arguing with you.
    Welcome to capitalist economics 101 !! Those businesses that made teh biggest mistakes failed the first !! Wooo Hoooo !! My local bank employees still get paychecks, just from a different company. Somewhere Wells Fargo added employees to a few of their home offices, while Wachovia, the dumbasses, lost thiers. That is how it works. You want to make some excusee that "they bought Triple-A rated ... blah blah". So what ? They put too many eggs in one basket. Others did not !! Merrill Lynch was equally stupid.

    Look at Blockbuster. They have had to downsize tremendously because they made bad decisions and let Netflix grab market share. Are we supposed to blame someone other than Blockbuster ? Welcome to capitalism.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Who actually started the process of rating loans as triple A when they weren't? You know?
    It was a process. You can go read this stuff, if you want? It goes back to Moodys and Goldman Sachs. Basically, well, here is a source that explains some of it:

    1
    For instance, he knew that the big Wall Street investment banks took huge piles of loans that in and of themselves might be rated BBB, threw them into a trust [i.e. a CDO], carved the trust into tranches, and wound up with 60 percent of the new total being rated AAA.
    
But he couldn't figure out exactly how the rating agencies justified turning BBB loans into AAA-rated bonds. "I didn't understand how they were turning all this garbage into gold," he says. He brought some of the bond people from Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, and UBS over for a visit. "We always asked the same question," says Eisman. "Where are the rating agencies in all of this? And I'd always get the same reaction. It was a smirk."
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Lewis
    [T]here were large sums of money to be made, if you could somehow get [triple-B mortgage bonds] re-rated as triple-A, thereby lowering their perceived risk, however dishonestly and artificially. This is what Goldman Sachs had cleverly done.

    ...

    Goldman was in the position of selling bonds to its customers created by its own traders, so they might bet against them...

    According to a former Goldman derivatives trader, Goldman would buy the triple-A tranche of some CDO, pair it off with the credit default swaps AIG sold Goldman that insured the tranche (at a cost well below the yield of the tranche), declare the entire package risk-free, and hold it off its balance sheet. Of course, the whole thing wasn't risk free: If AIG went bust, the insurance was worthless, and Goldman would lose everything. Today, Goldman Sachs is, to put it mildly, unhelpful when asked to explain exactly what it did, and this lack of transparency extends to its own shareholders. "If a team of forensic accountants went over Goldman's books, they'd be shocked at just how good Goldman is at hiding things," says one former AIG FP employee, who helped to unravel the mess, and who was intimate with his Goldman counterparts.
    Do you get what happened? Goldman would get its securities rated AAA. The ones it could not get rated AAA, it would skim off and find things they could package with it to get them rated AAA. And then, the ones from that pile that they could not get rated AAA, they would skim off again and start the process over. They were selling garbage but making it look like gold, and these rating agencies were making the case for them. Meanwhile, since Goldman Sachs knew these packages were going to fail, they bet against them knowing that they would stand to make huge masses of money. This put lots of people out of business. That's thousands of jobs down the toilet. So if you really care about the economy, that should piss you the **** off.

    Call them stupid if you want, that's easy, but the real deal is they got defrauded. And Goldman Sachs went before Congress and lied about the whole thing.

    *Edit to add:

    I am being trolled so hard right now.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 10-05-11 at 03:58 PM.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Who actually started the process of rating loans as triple A when they weren't? You know?
    Many were predicting that the bubble would collapse. What many believed was that they could get in, and then get out, before it did. As I said earlier, derivatives did not create the recession. Every derivative loser had a derivative winner. There are solid reasons for the recession, but they ain't it.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    This is nonsense. To claim that bank fails are why there are no loans is rubbish. There is plenty of money there to loan. Go check. Do some reading. FYI, as TARP was the bank bailouts, how much of that has NOT been paid back ? I believe that 95% of it is now paid back.

    Banks are not making loans because the economy sucks. The money is there though. Lots of it.
    Yes and no. You are right about loans. If you have the credit and even a basic ability to get a loan you can.

    I know that the arguement is that we have been paid back from TARP but there is no way logically what we have been told can be true.
    Supposedly the banks were in a major hole. Unable to survive without a bail-out. If that was the case there is no way they can go from that
    to paying it all back and record profits in such a short period of time especially in this economy.

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