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Thread: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

  1. #251
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    If your argument was any good, you would not have to make an absurd analogy with a TV set. Government created the bubble. Everyone tried to make money off it, including a lot of folks who bought, but then did not sell soon enough. They could have rented instead. Regardless of derivatives, the bubble had to pop. That's why they call it a "bubble". Derivatives did not pop the bubble. They did not create the bubble.

    Government made the mess. Government interference in basic capitalist markets. But all the libs go "yup yup, dat's it" and blame Wall Street, rich people, and corporate greed. While asking for more free stuff.
    bush and the republicans are liberal?

    USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership
    In a bid to boost minority homeownership, President Bush will ask Congress for authority to eliminate the down-payment requirement for Federal Housing Administration loans.
    In announcing the plan Monday at a home builders show in Las Vegas, Federal Housing Commissioner John Weicher called the proposal the "most significant FHA initiative in more than a decade." It would lead to 150,000 first-time owners annually, he said.
    The wingnuts want to pretend that the housing bubble occurred under Obama
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Disputatious71 View Post
    Cite where putting up a fence is identified as out of control spending since border security & citizen safety are both duties of the government and due to the fact that their is no border long fence can you back up the 1 trillion dollar figure as being spent !
    Border fencing is a wast of money because it is ineffective - most people walking in are already using tunnels now due to the use of infrared technology to spot groups crossing illegally. It would also do nothing to stop the flow of drugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Johnson (R), former governor of New Mexico
    Imagine you are a drug lord in Mexico, making unfathomable profits sending your illegal product to the United States. What is the headline you fear the most? “U.S. to build bigger fence”? “U.S. to send troops to the border”? “U.S. to deploy tanks in El Paso”? No. None of those would give you much pause. They would simply raise the level of difficulty and perhaps cause you to escalate the violence that already has turned the border region into a war zone. But would they stop you or ultimately hurt your bottom line? Probably not.

    But what if that drug lord opened his newspaper and read this: “U.S. to legalize and regulate marijuana”? That would ruin his day, and ruin it in a way that could not be fixed with more and bigger guns, higher prices or more murder.
    JOHNSON: Hitting the cartels where it hurts - Washington Times
    I don't want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was wedding between the religious fundamentalists and political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it. ~ Billy Graham in Parade magazine February 1, 1981.

  3. #253
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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Border fencing is a wast of money because it is ineffective - most people walking in are already using tunnels now due to the use of infrared technology to spot groups crossing illegally. It would also do nothing to stop the flow of drugs.
    The vast majority of illegal immigrants in the country just overstayed visas after they expired. A fence doesn't protect against that.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The vast majority of illegal immigrants in the country just overstayed visas after they expired. A fence doesn't protect against that.
    Vast majority? Please present the percentages, thanks.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Vast majority? Please present the percentages, thanks.
    Actually, the split is 45-55 with border crossers being the majority. HOwever, "border crosser' does not mean "crossed over the US-Mexican border"

    http://www.energyofanation.org/sites...migrants_3.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, the split is 45-55 with border crossers being the majority. HOwever, "border crosser' does not mean "crossed over the US-Mexican border"

    http://www.energyofanation.org/sites...migrants_3.pdf
    According to your article, if we add Mexico and Latin America that totals 80%, not all but here perhaps the term vast majority applies.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    According to your article, if we add Mexico and Latin America that totals 80%, not all but here perhaps the term vast majority applies.
    Umm. Mexico and LA were already included, so you would be double counting.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Umm. Mexico and LA were already included, so you would be double counting.
    [/I]

    If I read the article correctly I think it said 57% came from Mexico and then 27% from other nations in Latin America.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    bush and the republicans are liberal?

    USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership


    The wingnuts want to pretend that the housing bubble occurred under Obama
    The bubble started in 1997. When HUD sued banks for not making enough bad loans ..... as though bad loans were somehow a good idea. The announced settlement was that the banks would start making tens of billions in bad loans, this bringing buyers into the market that never would have been there. Andrew Cuomo, then HUD Secretary, hailed this as a huge win. What he didn't tell everyone was that the flip side of the deal was that Fannie and Freddie would buy/underwrite every one of these high risk loans. So the bubble was born, with all the newfound buyers and can't- lose profits for bad loans, courtesy gubmit. By 1999 housing inflation was running well ahead of the rest of the normal rate. And it became a feeding frenzy.

    Unfortunately, what Bush did was react to a market that had actually begun to nudge Fannie and Freddie out. The bubble was growing so quickly that traditional lenders lowered all standards, as even if the buyer defaulted, the house could still be foreclosed and sold for profit. Anyone could buy a house no money down, except for those now going through such as the FHA, as it was stuck on the old standard, and losing market share. I don't credit Bush one bit, but that was the market reality at the time, a market pumped full of free money by government.

    I am reminded of a great line by Reagan: "Its not that our liberal friends are ignorant. They just know so much that isn't so".
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 10-04-11 at 01:57 PM.

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    Re: Occupy Wall Street Enters Its Fourth Day, Tensions Rise

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    The bubble started in 1997. When HUD sued banks for not making enough bad loans ..... as though bad loans were somehow a good idea. The announced settlement was that the banks would start making tens of billions in bad loans, this bringing buyers into the market that never would have been there. Andrew Cuomo, then HUD Secretary, hailed this as a huge win. What he didn't tell everyone was that the flip side of the deal was that Fannie and Freddie would buy/underwrite every one of these high risk loans. So the bubble was born, with all the newfound buyers and can't- lose profits for bad loans, courtesy gubmit. By 1999 housing inflation was running well ahead of the rest of the normal rate. And it became a feeding frenzy.

    Unfortunately, what Bush did was react to a market that had actually begun to nudge Fannie and Freddie out. The bubble was growing so quickly that traditional lenders lowered all standards, as even if the buyer defaulted, the house could still be foreclosed and sold for profit. Anyone could buy a house no money down, except for those now going through such as the FHA, as it was stuck on the old standard. I don't credit Bush one bit, but that was the market reality at the time, a market pumped full of free money by government.

    I am reminded of a great line by Reagan: "Its not that our liberal friends are ignorant. They just know so much that isn't so".
    I really do not think you should be criticizing anyone for a lack of knowledge. You have already shown a complete misunderstanding of what a derivative is or how the market works. You said:

    "Everyone tried to make money off it, including a lot of folks who bought, but then did not sell soon enough. They could have rented instead."

    I really do not think you understand how fundamentally wrong the entire grouping of sentences are. It literally makes no sense. So here is a great line by whysoserious:

    "Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you go around calling people ignorant".

    *Edit to add:

    Also, way to explain everything everyone already knew. I think we all know what the bubble was and the factors that contributed to it (except you who seems to think it was entirely liberals).
    Last edited by whysoserious; 10-04-11 at 02:01 PM.

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