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Thread: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    That completely nullifies the idea that alternatives exist. There are alternatives to creating a single payer system or overstepping legal bounds and mandating the purchase of a product.
    Not many in which someone won't be irresponsible (the legal bounds is still debatable BTW). We will have someone, a number of someones, who will be hurt, run up costs that they will never be able to pay for. That cost will be passed on one way or another.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawhide View Post
    Like I said, I see nothing wrong with what was yelled out in Tampa. It was politically incorrect at worst.
    Let's say the person was your family member, still think there's nothing wrong about cheering for the death of someone who's fallen ill?

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You should never enjoy it, even if you agree with it. You do it relcutantly, just as you go to war with a heavy heart. Someone will be hurt by this, someone innocent. Killing anyone, for any reason, just or not, effects someone else.

    im not cheering for the death of any particular person. Im cheering for the presence of the institution of the death penalty
    "The war is at our doorsteps, and it is fueled, figuratively and literally, by Islamic fascism, nurtured and bred in Iran."

    -Rick Santorum

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    At least Perry didn't say that. Good for him.
    Yep, a real hero amongst yokels....

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawhide View Post
    im not cheering for the death of any particular person. Im cheering for the presence of the institution of the death penalty
    Doesn't matter. That institution kills real people, with real families, who suffer real pain. Cheering it has the same effect. You may honestly agree with, but it is a somber institution that warrents a sober reaction. Cheering doesn't fit.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not many in which someone won't be irresponsible (the legal bounds is still debatable BTW). We will have someone, a number of someones, who will be hurt, run up costs that they will never be able to pay for. That cost will be passed on one way or another.
    I am more concerned about the accessibility, quality, and availability of the care I want and am accustomed to. I am not okay with 1 MRI for several hundred thousand people. I am not okay with 1 specialist for several hundred thousand people. Many single payer systems have very severe limitations on higher-end technology and medical care. I'm not okay with my dad, who must be able to use his knees for squatting, bending, climbing ladders, and other tasks necessary to completing his job as a carpenter, being made to wait 6 to 8 months for knee replacement because access to such procedures are now limited. The fact that it's already "paid for" when he goes in won't negate the fact that he'll lose 80% or more of his income during that waiting period if he's unable to work.

    We have problems with health care here. Many of them could be solved be better screening practices in the ER, less use of ER options for non-emergency situations, more emphasis on relatively cheap preventative care, better access to alternative medical options, competition through bids (instead of being limited to the doctor who has a partnership with the doctor you already saw, or the hospital you already visited, etc), and some pretty significant revisions to the manner in which drug companies operate. These companies make 100x, 200x, 300x profits or more on the medications they create, and that's after they heavily reinvest in R&D and receive grant money from world governments. And what are we getting? A cancer treatment that destroys you but is only 5% effective in destroying the cancer, while multiple studies are indicating that a more effective, less harmful cure is possible through the use of a chemical derive from a pretty common plant. Because when there's only one "cure", you can charge a hell of a lot more for it.

    The immediate solution does not have to be a government pool of limited resources. We have other options we have not considered. And before we go to the extreme of handing medicine over to the government I'd like to investigate and explore those options.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    I understand you being more concerned with your own personal situation. But that doesn't change much.

    Nor does a single payer system have to have only one MRI for x number of people. Here the system would be two tiered. But, without some system to handle those who are irresponsible, we will be left with a choice of either paying for them one way or another, or allowing some to die.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I understand you being more concerned with your own personal situation. But that doesn't change much.

    Nor does a single payer system have to have only one MRI for x number of people. Here the system would be two tiered. But, without some system to handle those who are irresponsible, we will be left with a choice of either paying for them one way or another, or allowing some to die.
    Do you not think that "we must take care of the irresponsible because their irresponsible" is a pretty bad method of handling such an issue?

    And it isn't just my individual situation. Limited access affects everybody, and it is a persistent problem in single payer systems, even those with a two-tier design. Once they start sucking up more of my money for healthcare how am I supposed to afford private insurance on top of it?? Most countries with single payer have effective tax rates close to 50%. I'd have about 16k in accessible money to get me through a year and I've got to pay rent, buy food, pay car payments, pay for my cell phone, pay for school, pay for insurance, try to save, etc.

    So I have to think it would be better for the people as a whole to try other options before we start taxing people at a higher rate to cover a program that seems to me to be the most drastic option available, given the possibilities.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Do you not think that "we must take care of the irresponsible because their irresponsible" is a pretty bad method of handling such an issue?

    And it isn't just my individual situation. Limited access affects everybody, and it is a persistent problem in single payer systems, even those with a two-tier design. Once they start sucking up more of my money for healthcare how am I supposed to afford private insurance on top of it?? Most countries with single payer have effective tax rates close to 50%. I'd have about 16k in accessible money to get me through a year and I've got to pay rent, buy food, pay car payments, pay for my cell phone, pay for school, pay for insurance, try to save, etc.

    So I have to think it would be better for the people as a whole to try other options before we start taxing people at a higher rate to cover a program that seems to me to be the most drastic option available, given the possibilities.
    I don't think must is the word I would use. I simply know that reality is what it is and we have to make choices on how we handle it.

    And access is limited now. That's the point. We also spend more now than nearly anyone else. A single payor system is not a fix with only one model. Like I said, here it would be two teired, and as such, not limiting in any way. but we would spend less money providing basic and necessary care than we do presently.

    The option as I see it is neither drastic or worse than what we are currently doing. it is just a common snese way to handle the problems we face with health care, and it takes it out of the workplace, and would much more to help us compete internationally than lower taxes will. It's higher on that list we've spoke of.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Rick Perry 'Taken Aback' By Tea Party Audience Cheering, "Let Patient Die"

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Doesn't matter. That institution kills real people, with real families, who suffer real pain. Cheering it has the same effect. You may honestly agree with, but it is a somber institution that warrents a sober reaction. Cheering doesn't fit.
    Save your breath. The rightwingers, as a whole, can not understand compassion, as they regularly demonstrate. It's not as if this were the first time they have cheered death. During the push to pass HCR, the rightwingers did the same thing to a man who was suffering from a deadly condition, and they expressed their desire to see him die, as well as others

    Tea Party Patriots Attack Family Who Lost Daughter And Grandchild (VIDEO)

    Commentary: Tea Party member mocks Ebert's cancer following the recent Cinco de Mayo controversy - National Comedy | Examiner.com

    Video "Tea Party Mocks Dead Baby And Mother" - Technorati


    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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