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Thread: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

  1. #71
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Of course it's a solution. Every country on Earth has already come to this conclusion, and they're enjoying a superior system. They're paying much less for a more effective health service.
    Their care is inferior and their waiting on average is longer. As for cost, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's a considerable advantage to our own.

    As for everyone coming to that conclusion, its obvious when you put the government in power over a system they will enjoy it.
    Last edited by Henrin; 09-13-11 at 11:00 PM.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Their care is inferior and their waiting on average is longer. As for cost, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's a considerable advantage to our own.

    As for everyone coming to that conclusion, its obvious when you put the government in power over a system they will enjoy it.
    Everyone is coming to that conclusion. Are you outside your mind? The obvious answer is yes, because, get this, even some Europeans don't like their health care system. I just blew your mind. I know.
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    They didn't really chant let him die, did they. Nice try though. Secondly, they guy should've had health insurance. Why should we have to pay for his lack of responsibility?
    Because you're pro life...

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Because you're pro life...
    I'm pro self-responsibility.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Their care is inferior
    According to who? ( )

    According to the WHO 36 countries out perform the US.

    The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy.
    Costa Rica, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, the UAE and Dominica all out perform the US according to the report.

    and their waiting on average is longer.
    Fair enough, but outcomes don't necessarily favor the US. According to this report, systematic analysis of health care outcomes between the US and Canada tend to favor the Canadian system.

    We identified 38 studies comparing populations of patients in Canada and the United States. Studies addressed diverse problems, including cancer, coronary artery disease, chronic medical illnesses and surgical procedures. Of 10 studies that included extensive statistical adjustment and enrolled broad populations, 5 favoured Canada, 2 favoured the United States, and 3 showed equivalent or mixed results. Of 28 studies that failed one of these criteria, 9 favoured Canada, 3 favoured the United States, and 16 showed equivalent or mixed results. Overall, results for mortality favoured Canada (relative risk 0.95, 95% confidence interval 0.92-0.98, p= 0.002) but were very heterogeneous, and we failed to find convincing explanations for this heterogeneity. The only condition in which results consistently favoured one country was end-stage renal disease, in which Canadian patients fared better.
    It seems like a fair trade off. Also, there are many cases of unnecessary or erroneous surgeries in the US, which may lend an example of how longer wait times can actually benefit a patient. But that's neither here nor there.

    As for everyone coming to that conclusion, its obvious when you put the government in power over a system they will enjoy it.
    Exactly.
    Last edited by Bardo; 09-13-11 at 11:30 PM.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by rcart76 View Post
    First the applauding for executions in Texas and now the willingness to let people just die if they didn't have insurance. Man the blood thirst in the republican party is border line medievel. And they say us liberals are godless.
    Under a system where there's zero government intervention in the health care system, and either insurance money or private money is used to cover all health care expenses, an individual who had an accident and had no health insurance would be at the mercy of either society or his friends and family. If he were a wonderful individual--someone who had served his community, helped others, then I would say the community in which he lives has an ethical, but NOT legal, obligation to help him out w/medical expenses, or, at the very least, his friends/family.

    Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where relative morality rears its head, i. e. there's no universal agreement on when someone deserves to be subsidized by others.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Their care is inferior and their waiting on average is longer. As for cost, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's a considerable advantage to our own.

    As for everyone coming to that conclusion, its obvious when you put the government in power over a system they will enjoy it.
    On average they live longer and on average they wait less.

    See, Canada and the UK aren't the only other two countries, but did you notice how those are always the two examples given? Usually hip replacements, too.

    Because most of the other countries wait less than we do.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I'm not saying let him die, I'm saying treat him and then bill him.
    Joe Citizen is uninsured and earns 45k a year. He is a renter and is making payments on his car. He is 30 years old and perfectly healthy. However, he is involved in a serious accident and is in a coma for 6 months - requiring a 6 month hospital stay. That stay results in approximately 400,000 dollars in medical bills. Sure the hospital will bill him but the chance of that provider getting even 5% of the money is very low. So what happens is that cost then gets passed on to everyone else. Its a terrible system, but unless we require everyone to have insurance, its something we just have to live with because no one would just let the guy die.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Joe Citizen is uninsured and earns 45k a year. He is a renter and is making payments on his car. He is 30 years old and perfectly healthy. However, he is involved in a serious accident and is in a coma for 6 months - requiring a 6 month hospital stay. That stay results in approximately 400,000 dollars in medical bills. Sure the hospital will bill him but the chance of that provider getting even 5% of the money is very low. So what happens is that cost then gets passed on to everyone else. Its a terrible system, but unless we require everyone to have insurance, its something we just have to live with because no one would just let the guy die.
    Which is precisely the argument the GOP used when they proposed a health insurance mandate. We're paying for their healthcare already, it's inhumane to let them die, so let's make them chip into the pot too and save ourselves some money by using preventative medicine instead of emergency rooms. We're tired of footing the bill for cheapskates who can afford insurance but don't get it!

    Now? ZOMG SOCIALISM!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Joe Citizen is uninsured and earns 45k a year. He is a renter and is making payments on his car. He is 30 years old and perfectly healthy. However, he is involved in a serious accident and is in a coma for 6 months - requiring a 6 month hospital stay. That stay results in approximately 400,000 dollars in medical bills. Sure the hospital will bill him but the chance of that provider getting even 5% of the money is very low. So what happens is that cost then gets passed on to everyone else. Its a terrible system, but unless we require everyone to have insurance, its something we just have to live with because no one would just let the guy die.
    Joe Citizen makes 21k more than me a year and I have medical insurance.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

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