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Thread: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Since there was no video of the actual audience, you were counting what exactly?
    The number of voices that responded to Paul's remark. You do understand that the issue is what was said, yes, rather than what was seen?

    I find difficult to believe that you are genuinely this confused.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    It's immoral to drink and gamble
    I've been here nearly a year now. And until today I think I have found myself in agreement with your viewpoint an astounding amount of the time.

    I suppose all good things come to an end.

    Attachment 67115783Attachment 67115784

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    ..It's immoral to drink and gamble...
    says who?

    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I like your reasonable attitude, although I am always perplexed by left-libertarians. I am also wary of the "freedom to starve" thing, which is why I support some minimal government-enforced safety net. I am not an anarcho-capitalist, I am a minarchist libertarian. But the key word there is minimal.
    Noam Chomsky sometimes refers to himself as a libertarian. So too has Paulo Friere. Libertarian thought is a very large tent. I have been sadened to see the term increasingly refer only to the RW, "corporate ascendency" version of it. I may have to start calling myself something else... but what makes a Libertarian? Fundamentally, I think there's just two things:

    1. Nonaggresion.
    2. belief in the freedom of individuals to do whatever dumb things they want, so long as they do not harm others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Healthcare isn't a right. It's a fact of scarcity that it will always be rationed, as you say. But if we treat healthcare as a right, then it's a slippery slope. Does that right extend to elective treatments? It just doesn't make sense. The only sensible thing for a leftist to do is divvy up healthcare equally for all, which diminishes the quality of healthcare for the top while raising it for the bottom. Sounds reasonable, but it's impossible to achieve without coercion.

    I don't think healthcare should, morally, be determined by ability to pay. But society has outvoted me. And unless I'm willing to coerce society into following my moral prejudices (which I am not), then I have no alternative but the accept the free market.

    If a fellow doesn't have insurance, he is at the mercy of fate and can only hope for the charity of others. That's his decision. He must accept the consequences of it. The upshot is, he's free.
    The answer seems to be
    1. A base level of care that at least stops people from proverbially or litterally dying in the streets. Since not all given this care can pay, the cost will be socialized (by other users of the hospital, gov't programs, or charity.)
    2. A free market in insurance programs and health care service itself that allows for whatever level of care a consumer wants.

    This is not so different from the system currently in place, with the giant, glaring exceptions of Medicare and Medicaid.
    "A witty saying proves nothing." Voltaire

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    says who?

    ....
    I've been a bad boy



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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    indeed, saying that society should not flip the healthcare bill for poor people who can't pay their bills, is basically telling the poor to go die in a dark corner.

    luckily, we are a Judeo-Christian society...and we do NOT let people simply die in the street.
    We do allow people to die in the street and then refuse to punish the person responsible accordingly....... all in the name of being compassionate.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    This is an outrage, a real good bunch of "Christians" and I use the term lightly. Their is nothing Christ like any of their actions. The Good Samaritan did NOT walk by the dying man lying in the street and tell him, "I am sorry it was your fiscal responsibility to take care of yourself, I must let you die. Maybe the church down the street will come by and save you". You know a "true" Christian by the fruits, and Let Him Die is not one of them.
    Even worse still, not one of those candidates had the nerve to stand up and say, No that is not right. Why? I think they fear their own supporters. At least Mccain was brave enough to stand up when someone said Obama was not an Arab, now President Obama. They are going down a slippery slope, they want to do away with our separation of Church and State....BIG MISTAKE. Go back and read dark ages, Inquistions. It will happen again and it will be led with "Christians" in the fore front (again use that term lightly), they will be persecuting people of any different faith than the one they believe. This country was founded on Christianity, but most were running away from persecution, they knew there must be law so everyone can worship to their own conscience. And giving us the best thing for everyone, amendment with separation of Church and State. God Bless America, and God help us all if any of these candidates get in.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    They did chant Let him die? Are u hard of hearing? Anyone one can hear them say that.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    The same risks they face today. Massive debt, the need to depend on the charity of others, substandard care, etc.

    The chance of full recovery after 4 months in a coma is very slim. As health care costs continue to increase (and they will with more and more government involvement) and the reality of opportunity costs, the government or insurers will be forced to base care on the chance of recovery. Some bureaurat that does not know the patient and has never set eyes on him will choose between whether this patient gets care or if it is given to someone with a better prognosis.

    Besides all this, Blitzer's question was nothing but dishonest. The number of employed without insurance is pretty low. One can come up with unlikely scenarios all day that make any REALISTIC answer sound bad. We need to focus on reality and not some stupid questions designed to force the person into taking an unfavorable position.

    The real problem are the spiraling costs which are due to government meddling in the market.
    Re: Bold. No it wasn't a dishonest question at all. It's a question about the mandate portion of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), which was conceived by conservatives at the Heritage Foundation. The mandate is meant to catch people who have the means to purchase health insurance but don't bother because they are young and think they can live forever. These people become a burden on society when the find themselves in emergency rooms and don't have the means pay the astronomical costs. Society meaning you and me end up paying for these people.
    Last edited by pbrauer; 09-18-11 at 02:49 AM.


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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Re: Bold. No it wasn't a dishonest question at all. It's a question about the mandate portion of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), which was conceived by conservatives at the Heritage Foundation. The mandate is meant to catch people who have the means to purchase health insurance but don't bother because they are young and think they can live forever. These people become a burden on society when the find themselves in emergency rooms and don't have the means pay the astronomical costs. Society meaning you and me end up paying for these people.
    One of my daughters sold her salon to pursue a teaching career, she works summers for the woman she sold the salon too. The owner is a young woman who makes a very very good living...she refuses to pay for health insurance always said she doesnt need it....she fell in her house and cracked her spine in two places...she has undergone 3 surgeries and is hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt...which she will never pay....there are alot of him and hers out there, that can easily afford health care and absolutely refuse to buy it....

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