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Thread: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Question (just moving this issue along).

    So the guy who has a "good job, makes a good living" is taken care of for 6 months, presumably by tax payer dollars. Why would he or anybody else need private health insurance now? The govt is going to be there if something bad happens to me so why should I pay for insurance?

    What if the guy who has a "good job, makes a good living" still decides that he doesn't needs insurance because of this.
    Last edited by jasonxe; 09-16-11 at 04:59 AM.



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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    So the guy who has a "good job, makes a good living" is taken care of for 6 months, presumably by tax payer dollars. Why would he or anybody else need private health insurance now?
    He/they wouldn't.

    However, as wait times tend to be a little longer in a public system, private treatment/insurance could be an option wealthy patients who want private care.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonxe View Post
    Question (just moving this issue along).

    So the guy who has a "good job, makes a good living" is taken care of for 6 months, presumably by tax payer dollars. Why would he or anybody else need private health insurance now? The govt is going to be there if something bad happens to me so why should I pay for insurance?

    What if the guy who has a "good job, makes a good living" still decides that he doesn't needs insurance because of this.
    That's why there should be a health insurance mandate which is what Blitzer was getting at. If you and Paul don't want to let the man die, the hospital must get money for the care in some way. Currently it gets it from the tax-payers and raising the cost of healthcare (going after the family for the bill didn't seem to be the case in Paul's campaign manager's case). If the man was forced to buy health insurance from the start, the question would be null since he has insurance.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 09-16-11 at 08:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post
    He did not. He said, "our neighbors, our friends, our churches would do it." Intervening is not the opposite of freedom. Force is the opposite of freedom. Intervening with force to make others pay for the irresponsible behavior another is what he opposes.
    The neighbors, friends and family of Paul's ex-campaign manager still own the hospital for the care he received before he died. Or the fact that many people have to declare bankruptcies due to medical bills, which leaves the hospitals holding the cans. Does Paul have an answer for that? Is that how personal responsibility works in Paul's views?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And coherent statements completely lost from you.
    you could attempt to craft one or two and then we could see if your claim has any validity to it.
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinnity View Post
    People are just fed up with the nanny state.
    "nanny state" - what is that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    "nanny state" - what is that?
    It's a condescending way to describe a government that is perceived to hold the hand, guide, direct, and take care of all (or maybe a majority?) of it's citizens.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    At that point, he does say, "no," but he answered the question more than once. His first response to the hypothetical of a person in a coma without health insurance was:

    "What he should do is whatever he wants to do and assume responsibility for it?"

    Which most certainly infers that society is not responsible for such an individual and that death could be a consequence for making the choice of not carrying health insurance. He then reiterated that sentiment when he said:

    "That's what freedom is all about, taking your own risks."

    At that point, after twice inferring that death could be the risk by not maintaining sufficient coverage, Blitzer asks him directly to confirm if he's saying society should just let him die.

    The very first word out of Paul's mouth is "no," however, as he continues, he conveys his own personal experience where churches helped people like that out and how the medical facility he was employed at "never turned anybody away." Now aside from him talking about a very different time 50 years ago when healthcare costs were nothing like they are today, hospitals still provide emergency care services for indigent people at the expense of the tax payer and churches still take collections for their needy. But not everybody belongs to a church. Not everybody can be cured by emergency care. So what, we let everybody who is not the beneficiery of such charity die?



    What I take from that exchange between Blitzer and Paul is Paul feels personal responsibility trumps society's responsibility and if someone makes a choice which turns out to be a mistake, so be it, that individual will have to suffer the consequences, even if those consequences include death. But that death is an unlikely fate due to the charity of others, such as charity from a doctor or a medical facility or a church, etc...

    I don't think someone's fate of escaping death due to poor choices (or even worse, because they're too poor to make the right choices) should be left to the chance that someone may feel charitable enough to step in and save that person's life. Life or death situations should not be left up to the chance that hopefully, someone is feeling charitable enough at that moment to help out. When it comes to life or death medical needs, I feel there needs to be a balance between indiviual responsibility with a compassionate society's responsibilty to look out for the general welfare of the nation's people. When it comes to healthcare, by far, most civilized societies feel that way since most offer some form of national healthcare for their citizens.


    Excellent post. You nailed it.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by RStringfield View Post

    However, my arse. HE CLEARLY AND DIRECTLY ANSWERED NO.
    You can stomp your feet, gnash your teeth and throw stuff at the computer all you want. It won't change what he did or didn't say. And clearly he was equivocating. And especially since he hasn't come out and clarified. Not to worry, he'll get asked again.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by David D. View Post
    It's a condescending way to describe a government that is perceived to hold the hand, guide, direct, and take care of all (or maybe a majority?) of it's citizens.
    thank you - would it be too much to hope for if I asked for actual real life everyday examples of this nanny state - why it is bad - who it harms - and its negative effect upon our society and nation? Or would that take it far beyond the hollow bumper sticker and lapel pin cliche that it is intended to be in the first place?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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