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Thread: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    I don't know, why not ask Ron Paul's uninsured 2008 campaign manager? I know why, because he's dead.
    Facing a life-threatening condition without the money to pay for the treatment or paid membership to a club that shares the cost means you may die. You may die anyway. It is no surprise or shock. Humans have a 100% death rate.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 09-14-11 at 07:36 PM.

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    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I wasn't talking about you. I'm talking about the general idea. Its not about protection of rights and liberties, its about services for people that they couldn't otherwise afford. Its a system designed for the few while forcing everyone else to be part in either the form of tax money they see no return on(medicare) or forcing them on a system with tax payer money they don't need(UHC)
    It's available to everyone, not just those who (currently) need it. The very notion that someone deserves better (non-cosmetic) medical treatment than someone else because they have more money is absurd. We're not talking about clothing or consumer products, we're talking about health service. How is it more rational to say that everyone needs an education, so we'll provide public schools, but health care is a commodity that should be determined by how much one is willing to pay for service?
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  3. #173
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    That was hardly some standing ovation. It was two or three people. Extrapolating that to the entire group is wrong.
    And I'm not sure how we know it was the Tea Party who was yelling? And I love how personal choice is now considered sentencing people to death... I happen to agree with Paul. You make your way or you don't - it's your choice. Just like legalizing drugs - you choose to shoot heroine because it's legal, it's now society's responsibility to save your life because you chose badly? Screw that.

    With personal choice comes personal responsibility.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Facing a life-threatening condition without the money to pay for the treatment or paid membership to a club that shares the cost means you may die. You may die anyway. It is no surprise or shock. Humans have a 100% death rate.
    The difference being the hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt left behind because he got sick. In an emergency room everyone will get treatment, the problem is the cost of the treatment. Even if you break $400,000 into monthly payments of $1,000 it would take 400 months (33 years) to pay it off.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    Charity. People are charitable when they are not forced to be that way.
    Oh, you mean the thousand points of light that will magically take over so you don't have to bear any responsibility to your fellow citizens? If that were happening, health care cost would not be the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country.

    And even more importantly, as The Institute of Medicine estimates: "18,000 Americans die prematurely each year due to the effects of lack of health insurance coverage."
    Physical Health Care Systems
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    How is it more rational to say that everyone needs an education, so we'll provide public schools, but health care is a commodity that should be determined by how much one is willing to pay for service?
    There's virtually no upper limit to the amount (and cost) of life-prolonging medical care people need before they finally die. Public Ed is not quite as potentially limitless as keeping people alive is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    The difference being the hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt left behind because he got sick. In an emergency room everyone will get treatment, the problem is the cost of the treatment. Even if you break $400,000 into monthly payments of $1,000 it would take 400 months (33 years) to pay it off.
    Care that expensive shouldn't be happening as often as it is. Period.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 09-14-11 at 07:49 PM.

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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Rough Rider View Post
    I have no doubt that's the entire solution for Libertarians(and other GOP refugees).
    Thats because Libertarian ideas spring primarily from the "I've got mine, so everyone else can just go **** themselves." school of philosophy.
    Well, at least of the right wing of the Libertarian party. There are many of the Libertarian left, such as Bardo, who see the same problems we do.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #178
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    It's available to everyone, not just those who (currently) need it.
    Its not for me, its for them. I'm there for the ride and pay for their care and mine. While its true I will get care, its also true I have no reason to expect the same level of care in the new system and I have no interest in joining.

    The very notion that someone deserves better (non-cosmetic) medical treatment than someone else because they have more money is absurd.
    The system SHOULD be based on level of payment like any other system to provide the maximum level of care for the cheapest. Treating it like a one sized fits all shoe with buffers in the middle of the process raises the prices of care and allows absurd practices to exist.

    How is it more rational to say that everyone needs an education, so we'll provide public schools, but health care is a commodity that should be determined by how much one is willing to pay for service?
    I support private schooling. Public schooling offers a system of education that has lower baseline.

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    Unnecessary Middleman Bardo's Avatar
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There's virtually no upper limit to the amount (and cost) of life-prolonging medical care people need before they finally die. Public Ed is not quite as potentially limitless as keeping people alive is.

    Care that expensive shouldn't be happening as often as it is. Period.
    Costs of private treatment are far more expensive than the cost of public treatment. The insurance companies are making a profit, the pharmaceutical companies are making a profit and the actual medical institutions are making a profit. The expense of public health care isn't determined by the profitability of the service, it's determined by the actual need of service. Plus, there would be much less incentive for needless treatment and needless medical products.
    "It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this." Bertrand Russell

  10. #180
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    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Oh, you mean the thousand points of light that will magically take over so you don't have to bear any responsibility to your fellow citizens? If that were happening, health care cost would not be the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country.

    And even more importantly, as The Institute of Medicine estimates: "18,000 Americans die prematurely each year due to the effects of lack of health insurance coverage."
    Physical Health Care Systems
    I don't have any responsibilty to my fellow citizens, just myself.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

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