Page 13 of 64 FirstFirst ... 311121314152363 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 640

Thread: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

  1. #121
    Sage
    lpast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fla
    Last Seen
    05-21-16 @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,565

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    Not sure how you get that...some warped logic you have there.

    Not warped at all...you stated the guy should have had health insurance why should we have to pay for him....well then you have to be for an insurance mandate that FORCES everyone to buy insurance...how else can you make guys like him buy insurance if he doesnt want too...and cost you money....make sense now ?

  2. #122
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Windy City
    Last Seen
    09-21-11 @ 11:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    397
    Would people choose to pay for the army, police force or firefighters if it weren't mandated?

    Why do people argue that those can be mandated (without any choices to the quality you get ect), and say that in no way should healthcare be mandated (even though you'd have some choices here)?

    Aren't these both protection mechanisms for both the individual and society as a whole (police & healthcare)?
    Last edited by David D.; 09-14-11 at 09:04 AM.

  3. #123
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,400

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    So is assuming that people can't care for themselves, because the American's are in DESPERATE need of their government.
    My problem with libertarianism, and also why I believe is the reason why no industrialized nation on earth has adopted the ideology, is that ultimately its a utopian belief system that makes a lot of sense in some areas but is completely impractical in others. Take health care for example. You stated that you life on a very modest salary but you can still afford insurance. You also pointed out that you made payments to pay unpaid medical bills after a 4 day hospital stay. That is good and shows some personal responsibility on your part.

    However, say God forbid you were diagnosed with something like stage 4 cancer. You have a poor prognosis because of recurrence rates for your type of cancer, but your oncologyst believes that your cancer is treatable in the short term. Basically, the cancer will most likely kill you, but it could take a few years to do so. So you go in for surgery to remove any operable tumors, and then you start chemo. Your insured so 80% of these costs are covered right now. The problem is that you get so sick in the short term that you either lose your job and thus your insurance associated with it, or you are not able to work enough to pay your insurance premiums. So you lose your insurance. At this point, the hospital you are getting treatment from will most likely refer you to a University Hospital. Thats not really a problem in and of itself, because if you have cancer you should have been going to one in the first place because university hospitals almost always have the best cancer centers. That university hospital would then come to you about signing you up for temporary medicaid, you would sign those forms they bring you for it because they want to be paid to treat you, and thats the only way you can possibly pay for that treatment (hundreds of thousands of dollars). So in that situation you would indeed be in "DESPERATE need of your government".

    Now you are probably thinking - "wait a second, I could go to a charity hospital for treatment". Maybe so, but most likely that hospital would be hundreds of miles away or even farther and thus it would not be a viable option for you. The reason being is that you still have to live until you die. Thats the problem with dying, many times it doesn't happen very fast. So in the mean time you still have to work when you can to meet your needs of food, water, and shelter. If you are too sick to work at all, then you will be in desperate need of government again when you sign up for disability.

    The tea partiers and some libertarians have some nice ideas about how the world would work without those social safety nets, but as you Yogi Berra said "in theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. "
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 09-14-11 at 09:09 AM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  4. #124
    Sage
    lpast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fla
    Last Seen
    05-21-16 @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,565

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    My problem with libertarianism, and also why I believe is the reason why no industrialized nation on earth has adopted the ideology, is that ultimately its a utopian belief system that makes a lot of sense in some areas but is completely impractical in others. Take health care for example. You stated that you life on a very modest salary but you can still afford insurance. You also pointed out that you made payments to pay unpaid medical bills after a 4 day hospital stay. That is good and shows some personal responsibility on your part.

    However, say God forbid you were diagnosed with something like stage 4 cancer. You have a poor prognosis because of recurrence rates for your type of cancer, but your oncologyst believes that your cancer is treatable in the short term. Basically, the cancer will most likely kill you, but it could take a few years to do so. So you go in for surgery to remove any operable tumors, and then you start chemo. Your insured so 80% of these costs are covered right now. The problem is that you get so sick in the short term that you either lose your job and thus your insurance associated with it, or you are not able to work enough to pay your insurance premiums. So you lose your insurance. At this point, the hospital you are getting treatment from will most likely refer you to a University Hospital. Thats not really a problem in and of itself, because if you have cancer you should have been going to one in the first place because university hospitals almost always have the best cancer centers. That university hospital would then come to you about signing you up for temporary medicaid, you would sign those forms they bring you for it because they want to be paid to treat you, and thats the only way you can possibly pay for that treatment (hundreds of thousands of dollars). So in that situation you would indeed be in "DESPERATE need of your government".

    Now you are probably thinking - "wait a second, I could go to a charity hospital for treatment". Maybe so, but most likely that hospital would be hundreds of miles away or even farther and thus it would not be a viable option for you. The reason being is that you still have to live until you die. Thats the problem with dying, many times it doesn't happen very fast. So in the mean time you still have to work when you can to meet your needs of food, water, and shelter. If you are too sick to work at all, then you will be in desperate need of government again when you sign up for disability.

    The tea partiers and some libertarians have some nice ideas about how the world would work without those social safety nets, but as you Yogi Berra said "in theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. "

    Exactly my sentiments...they have some great ideas and they have ideas that are totally impractical in our society that would never float....Ron Paul to me is living in an america 40 yrs ago...

  5. #125
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,706

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Watching the debate on Monday night, I too was disgusted with the audience outburst. However, having been involved in debating rightist libertarians for the last decade, I think its a good thing that such vitriol and hatred came out in public and was exposed to a national audience.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #126
    He's the most tip top
    Top Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,279

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    So is assuming that people can't care for themselves, because the American's are in DESPERATE need of their government.
    Who said that? Oh wait, it was YOU.

  7. #127
    He's the most tip top
    Top Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,279

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Like I have a responsibility for anyone other then me and my family? Oh right, to liberals I do. I don't, sorry.

    And btw, nice show of compassiate behavior you got there. Death is better than being poor. Surely..
    I suggest that you can't let someone die and others suggest "it's not their problem", and you accuse me of not showing compassion?

    Black is white, up is down, in is out.

    How ironic that so many on the right cling to their Christianity when convenient.

    What would Christ do?

  8. #128
    Civil Libertarian
    DashingAmerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    08-31-17 @ 05:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,357

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Not warped at all...you stated the guy should have had health insurance why should we have to pay for him....well then you have to be for an insurance mandate that FORCES everyone to buy insurance...how else can you make guys like him buy insurance if he doesnt want too...and cost you money....make sense now ?
    Not at all. I'm not for any kind of mandate. Just when the unexpected happens, he shouldn't expect people to take care of him when he doesn't take care of himself.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

  9. #129
    Civil Libertarian
    DashingAmerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    08-31-17 @ 05:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,357

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    My problem with libertarianism, and also why I believe is the reason why no industrialized nation on earth has adopted the ideology, is that ultimately its a utopian belief system that makes a lot of sense in some areas but is completely impractical in others. Take health care for example. You stated that you life on a very modest salary but you can still afford insurance. You also pointed out that you made payments to pay unpaid medical bills after a 4 day hospital stay. That is good and shows some personal responsibility on your part.

    However, say God forbid you were diagnosed with something like stage 4 cancer. You have a poor prognosis because of recurrence rates for your type of cancer, but your oncologyst believes that your cancer is treatable in the short term. Basically, the cancer will most likely kill you, but it could take a few years to do so. So you go in for surgery to remove any operable tumors, and then you start chemo. Your insured so 80% of these costs are covered right now. The problem is that you get so sick in the short term that you either lose your job and thus your insurance associated with it, or you are not able to work enough to pay your insurance premiums. So you lose your insurance. At this point, the hospital you are getting treatment from will most likely refer you to a University Hospital. Thats not really a problem in and of itself, because if you have cancer you should have been going to one in the first place because university hospitals almost always have the best cancer centers. That university hospital would then come to you about signing you up for temporary medicaid, you would sign those forms they bring you for it because they want to be paid to treat you, and thats the only way you can possibly pay for that treatment (hundreds of thousands of dollars). So in that situation you would indeed be in "DESPERATE need of your government".

    Now you are probably thinking - "wait a second, I could go to a charity hospital for treatment". Maybe so, but most likely that hospital would be hundreds of miles away or even farther and thus it would not be a viable option for you. The reason being is that you still have to live until you die. Thats the problem with dying, many times it doesn't happen very fast. So in the mean time you still have to work when you can to meet your needs of food, water, and shelter. If you are too sick to work at all, then you will be in desperate need of government again when you sign up for disability.

    The tea partiers and some libertarians have some nice ideas about how the world would work without those social safety nets, but as you Yogi Berra said "in theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. "
    The charity would work. Is it impractical? Yes. Impossible? No.

    I do agree with you on the observation of libertarianism, but it is what closely resembles my political beliefs, which is why my lean is libertarian-right.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

  10. #130
    Civil Libertarian
    DashingAmerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    08-31-17 @ 05:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    3,357

    Re: Tea Party Crowd Yells Let Him Die

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I suggest that you can't let someone die and others suggest "it's not their problem", and you accuse me of not showing compassion?

    Black is white, up is down, in is out.

    How ironic that so many on the right cling to their Christianity when convenient.

    What would Christ do?
    What of us who aren't Christians and could care less what Christ would do?
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

Page 13 of 64 FirstFirst ... 311121314152363 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •