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Thread: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

  1. #131
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    1. 98% is not a vindication of 'the noble savage', as a few fringe lefties might want people to believe. I'd estimate that ~20% of the US population (at least) would fail a fool-proof drug test, rich, poor, black, white, asian, whatever. 98% is an indictment of the test, nothing else.

    2. Kali advocates help for the truly needy and wants them represented. I don't think she believes that everyone on welfare is living tough; however, some people think that everyone on welfare is living easy - and that's what bothers her. It's not reasonable to misinterpet a call for needed and useful welfare as a call for unfettered socialism... when it is a response to a call for the total elimination of welfare. Calling for total elimination is extremist, and such a position calling their opposition extremist seems, well, illegit.

    2a. It's too bad Kali doesn't love bombs, like me; but oh well, I guess she doesn't care about oppression.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 08-31-11 at 11:48 AM.

  2. #132
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    1. 98% is not a vindication of 'the noble savage', as a few fringe lefties might want people to believe. I'd estimate that ~20% of the US population (at least) would fail a fool-proof drug test, rich, poor, black, white, asian, whatever. 98% is an indictment of the test, nothing else.

    2. Kali advocates help for the truly needy and wants them represented. I don't think she believes that everyone on welfare is living tough; however, some people think that everyone on welfare is living easy - and that's what bothers her. It's not reasonable to misinterpet a call for needed and useful welfare as a call for unfettered socialism... when it is a response to a call for the total elimination of welfare. Calling for total elimination is extremist, and such a position calling their opposition extremist seems, well, illegit.

    2a. It's too bad Kali doesn't love bombs, like me; but oh well, I guess she doesn't care about oppression.
    Not sure about 2a, But otherwise, well stated.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #133
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Then why are people losing their mind about the cost of the program vs the benefit? And why do they continue to cite the cost of Welfare in the state as the cost of the drug testing program? It cant POSSIBLY have anything to do with posters bias and agenda...
    Perhaps for the same reason people began to complain about the cost of employee benefits packages for state employees - it became a rallying cry for "big government" and "big government spending". As such, enough people in positions of political power raised enough noise to convince people that welfare recipients are this "dredge on society". Kinda goes with that old saying, "if you say it often enough and loud enough eventually the lie becomes the truth".

    So, what do the preliminary numbers tell us?

    1. That there are tens of thousands of Floridians who are on state welfare who still need it.

    2. That the vast majority of applicants who have applied for TANF since the mandatory drug testing program has come into effect very likely are not habitual drug users as some have suggested.

    3. That those potential applicants who may be drug users may have refrained from applying for state benefits out of fear of being caught and subsequently losing said benefits.

    Other than the above, there's very little one can take away from the preliminary numbers. However, as I said in my last post the fact that over 90,000 Floridians still applied for TANF and the numbers from July-August are only 8.3% off the yearly average tells me that there are still more applicants out there who don't mind being tested likely because they don't have anything to hide.

    Give the process time...another year or two of testing should illustrate just how right or wrong the orchestrators of Florida's drug testing law are.

  4. #134
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Also do not forget that with Gippers bright idea they may even have to split families up and all kids in these "homes/shelters/TENTS!!" and adults in the other. It is a bad idea. We are not living in a 3rd world country for **** sake!
    ....We were not a 3rd world country, but then Reaganomics came along. We are not Mexico north, with 400 families running the country.

    http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html
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    Last edited by upsideguy; 09-01-11 at 02:28 AM.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah Lord, you got me...something like 18th century Great Britain. Guilty.



    No, I hope welfare wasn't designed to "support the nuclear family", because that's entirely too much cost. It's supposed to ensure the bare minimum of survival for all parties involved. If I was to see a "welfare family" in an average-sized house, multiple kids, sitting around a finely crafted dinner table with a steak in front of them, I would vomit with rage. You would completely disincentivize working. They can do jack, and enjoy standard benefits rendered to hard-working middle-class citizens? Hell, I wouldn't try to get a job either.

    Know what welfare should mean? It should mean squalor. It should mean beans and bread for dinner. It should mean thrift shop clothing runs. Give them barely enough to survive, and let them know firsthand that this is the life that is destined for them should they choose to continue this behavior. They can look around at the gainfully employed, driving Cadillacs out to Red Lobster for dinner, and know that with the right effort, they could hope for that someday too.

    In the meantime, I'm all about cost minimalization for people that are currently living off the dole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It was not forced, if they wanted assistance they went to the workhouse, or they could stay outside and die.

    No slavery involved
    Thanks. I thought I would save a link to these posts. It will make an excellent rebuttal to the assertion that America is a Christian nation.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    We're a Christian nation, but I still believe in that pesky "First Amendment" thing. I sure as hell don't want evangelicals mandating Biblical law.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    We're a Christian nation, but I still believe in that pesky "First Amendment" thing. I sure as hell don't want evangelicals mandating Biblical law.
    I realize it's a minor and argumentative point, but what makes us Christian? I would say if you look at our overall behavior and actions, you'd be hard pressed to prove this nation was Christain. just saying . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Well while it was founded on religious freedom, one could just see the statistics of people who identify themselves as Christian. It's overwhelming.

    And what is "Christian" and what people believe is "Christian" vary immensely. Some people think eating a burger on Friday earns you a spot in hell. Some people think to be a good "follower of God" means you forsake pretty much any technological advance. Even some people [in Kansas] think that we should boycott military funerals because they died based on the fact that God hates homosexuals.

    Any wonder why I'm not religious?

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Well while it was founded on religious freedom, one could just see the statistics of people who identify themselves as Christian. It's overwhelming.

    And what is "Christian" and what people believe is "Christian" vary immensely. Some people think eating a burger on Friday earns you a spot in hell. Some people think to be a good "follower of God" means you forsake pretty much any technological advance. Even some people [in Kansas] think that we should boycott military funerals because they died based on the fact that God hates homosexuals.

    Any wonder why I'm not religious?
    What people think really doesn't have much to do with what is actually Christain. But I think we agree on the problem. Many affliate with a religion without fully understanding what that religion actually believes. For example, I was talking to a Christian the other day (not the first time) who didn't believe in the trinity, thought it was a silly belief.

    Just saying . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Some denominations don't. Everyone has their own interpretation, they all think theirs is right and others are wrong. Personally, I tend to save most of my religious slams on the Catholics. Sorry, but they just set themselves up way too easily.

    It's a broad spectrum. Some are pro-life, some are pro-choice. Some are pro-capital punishment, some are anti. They all choose to align themselves as Christians though.

    Whether it makes sense or not doesn't qualify as a basis for assigning this nation as "Christian". If sense played a larger role, religion wouldn't be as pervasive as it is.

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