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Thread: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

  1. #101
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce
    In this particular case, it's blatant corporate welfare. The folks of that state gave $425k to private companies so that they wouldn't have to give $500k to the poor. One of those private companies, by sheer ****ing coincidence, is owned by the Governor of the state.
    So someone decided on their own which charities and causes were worth helping as opposed to...the government?

    Me, I do mind the "premium" to ensure that your money isn't "wasted" on one of those damned poors. What, some guy happened to toke up once in the last three weeks and this makes him unworthy of help in his desperate situation?
    In my eyes, yes. If you want to give him a joint out of your "hard earned" money, be my guest. I won't attempt to stop you. Pardon me for wanting to impart some responsibility and accountability.

    I guess I'm just wacky in the sense that I don't want to be robbed of my money and given to low-lifes who would abuse the system. Goofy guy I am. At least I don't and won't interfere if you want to do that.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Yeah Lord, you got me...something like 18th century Great Britain. Guilty.

    So your idea is to institutionalize them. How do you deal with families? Have you decided that poor people can't afford their families and they all get sent to the halfway house where instead of living as a family, they live in a commune? Perhaps I am running away from or with your idea, but that seems contrary to the precept of maintaining and supporting the nuclear family, which is one of the key ideas behind welfare.
    No, I hope welfare wasn't designed to "support the nuclear family", because that's entirely too much cost. It's supposed to ensure the bare minimum of survival for all parties involved. If I was to see a "welfare family" in an average-sized house, multiple kids, sitting around a finely crafted dinner table with a steak in front of them, I would vomit with rage. You would completely disincentivize working. They can do jack, and enjoy standard benefits rendered to hard-working middle-class citizens? Hell, I wouldn't try to get a job either.

    Know what welfare should mean? It should mean squalor. It should mean beans and bread for dinner. It should mean thrift shop clothing runs. Give them barely enough to survive, and let them know firsthand that this is the life that is destined for them should they choose to continue this behavior. They can look around at the gainfully employed, driving Cadillacs out to Red Lobster for dinner, and know that with the right effort, they could hope for that someday too.

    In the meantime, I'm all about cost minimalization for people that are currently living off the dole.

  3. #103
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah Lord, you got me...something like 18th century Great Britain. Guilty.



    No, I hope welfare wasn't designed to "support the nuclear family", because that's entirely too much cost. It's supposed to ensure the bare minimum of survival for all parties involved. If I was to see a "welfare family" in an average-sized house, multiple kids, sitting around a finely crafted dinner table with a steak in front of them, I would vomit with rage. You would completely disincentivize working. They can do jack, and enjoy standard benefits rendered to hard-working middle-class citizens? Hell, I wouldn't try to get a job either.

    Know what welfare should mean? It should mean squalor. It should mean beans and bread for dinner. It should mean thrift shop clothing runs. Give them barely enough to survive, and let them know firsthand that this is the life that is destined for them should they choose to continue this behavior. They can look around at the gainfully employed, driving Cadillacs out to Red Lobster for dinner, and know that with the right effort, they could hope for that someday too.

    In the meantime, I'm all about cost minimalization for people that are currently living off the dole.

    And Workhouses would not achieve what you feel would be ideal for reducing the incentive to be on welfare and reduce costs?

    Cheap food, cheap housing (dorms), standardized clothing, and they have to work to be able to get all those benifits as well.

    Heck I am certain the workhouses of England ended povety in the UK for all but the invalids
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 08-30-11 at 02:14 PM.
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Yeah, if they can do all that without forced slavery or servitude, I'm all for it.

    People have a choice. They can choose to accept a crumb, or to die quietly as to not bother any passers-by. At least the crumb can lead to a slice of the pie.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah, if they can do all that without forced slavery or servitude, I'm all for it.

    People have a choice. They can choose to accept a crumb, or to die quietly as to not bother any passers-by. At least the crumb can lead to a slice of the pie.
    It was not forced, if they wanted assistance they went to the workhouse, or they could stay outside and die.

    No slavery involved
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yeah, if they can do all that without forced slavery or servitude, I'm all for it.

    People have a choice. They can choose to accept a crumb, or to die quietly as to not bother any passers-by. At least the crumb can lead to a slice of the pie.
    I don't mind this workhouse idea, but I fail to see how it will be less expensive than if we just reform the rules/eligibility of welfare.

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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Same reason people get roommates - to share expenses.

    Obviously things like food and clothes cannot be pooled, but you would pay much less in utilities for 1 house having 10 people than 10 houses with a single occupant.

    That's what I was driving at - we pay too much welfare because we coddle these people. People on welfare shouldn't be afforded the ability to live on their own or with only their kids. Shouldn't be allowed a car, carte blanche at the supermarket, or any of myriad other privileges allowed to the working class.

    It was not forced, if they wanted assistance they went to the workhouse, or they could stay outside and die.

    No slavery involved
    Well then I read it wrong. I thought you emboldened a part saying that a man's wife was taken and sold as a prostitute/chattel. Did I read it wrong?

  8. #108
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test



    So much for that myth. Thanks for wasting money on hysteria over something that is barely a problem.

    Many of the alleged "leeches" on welfare now are the people who, until 2 years ago, were part of a functional work force and were productive contributors to economy. Now their lives are in chaos, their investments for the future are disintegrating before their eyes, and they are reduced to lesser prosperity. So... let's kick them while they're down and imply that they're drug abusers as well!
    That's TANIF only.

    There is no "welfare", there are several different programs.

    The public should have to pass a drug test for any and every government assistance. HEAP, SNAP, unemployment.....everything.

  9. #109
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    After reading through the first 5 pages of this thread and doing alittle research of my own, I think I've read enough to respond.

    First off, according to this article from the Miami Herald dated May 31, 2011, drug testing is performed by "urine, blood or hair samples" and applicants are randomly selected.

    Second, per this article from the Sunshine News dated just today, drug testing only covers TANF applicants not Food Stamp recipients. Both linked articles, including the one in the OP, state that applicants who pass the drug test will be "reimbursed by [Florida] taxpayers", meaning that the applicant pays out-of-pocket for the first and subsequent test should he/she test positive. Reportedly, cost for the drug test range anywhere from $10-45 (avg. $30).

    Third, although the parents may test positive for drug use, that doesn't mean the child wouldn't continue to receive TANF benefits. A positive drug test means a 6-month suspension of TANF eligibility for the parent(s). A second positive result equates to a 3-year suspension. Moreover, a state-approved designee (adult surrogate) can be appointed to recieve and distribute TANF benefits to the child(ren) provided such individual also passes a drug test.

    Fourth, setting the question over the constitutionality of such testing for the moment, it stands to reason that only those applicants who believe they may have something to hide will not subject themselves to such testing unless, of course, they believe they can beat the test. Considering that such drug testing is random and the applicant is fully aware of what he/she stands to loose - state-spondored benefits - I doubt many people would foolishly subject themselves to such loses especially when they are desperately in need of said benefits. This part is crucial for people to understand. Those who know they're doing wrong seldom will risk getting caught knowing they have something to lose. Of course, as long as the state allows for "surrogates" to step in and the children can still receive benefits I'm sure there will be some people who may very well take the risk. The good news here is all positive applicants get a "mulligan" and can volunteer for drug rehab.

    Fifth and it's very important for people to understand this last part, per the Sunshine News article, there are approximatley 50,000 applicants under FL-TANF, whereas, there are atleast 3 million recipients of FL-Food Stamps who, BTW, are not subject to drug testing under the new Florida law. I understand why that is: TANF is now what "welfare" use to be. As such, that's where the "taxpayer money" is because TANF is the monetary component to welfare whereas Food Stamps is not and is more controlled, i.e., bar codes at most major grocery store chains now weed out ineligible food-stuffs from purchases (excuse the pun).

    Bottom Line: I can understand the system in place. However, I question its real effectiveness. You can look at the results in two-ways: 1) either the risk of being drug tested and popping positive is too much of a risk for some and they choose not to subject themselve to being tested; or, 2) everyone who was eligible for TANF benefits did, in fact, show up and get tested and the results vindicated TANF applicants as being clean-cut households who just need alittle help. Per the Miami Herald article:

    About 233,000 Floridians applied for cash assistance in 2009-10, including 114,000 families, according to DCF statistics.

    This month, 93,170 Floridians received cash assistance, a drop of 8.3 percent from a year ago.
    Sounds to me the virdict is still out on the success or failure of the program considering the above results were just 1 month in the making. Let's give it some time and see how things shake out over say the next year or so.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-30-11 at 03:31 PM.

  10. #110
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    Re: 98 Percent of Welfare Applicants Pass Drug Test

    I will repeat myself for you libs that need a hammer to the head to get a point and I will shout! THE PROGRAM IS A SUCCESS; IT HAS KEPT DRUGGIES FROM APPLYING FOR CASH PAYOUTS! Why do I try?

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