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Bachmann: I'll get gas under $2

sawyerloggingon said:
I think obama has already done that and gas is still high.
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Amusingly you are both right. To actually reduce gas to below $2 would basically require a depression in the US coupled with a major shock to India and China at the same time as large supply backups to refineries.
 
obvious Child said:
Amusingly you are both right. To actually reduce gas to below $2 would basically require a depression in the US coupled with a major shock to India and China at the same time as large supply backups to refineries.
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Maybe Bachmann wants to make speculating illegal that could bring gas prices close to or under 2.00 per gallon, whether Bachmann want to deal with speculation or not speculating on life essential needs should be illegal


‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’

The price of crude oil today is not made according to any traditional relation of supply to demand. It’s controlled by an elaborate financial market system as well as by the four major Anglo-American oil companies. As much as 60% of today’s crude oil price is pure speculation driven by large trader banks and hedge funds. It has nothing to do with the convenient myths of Peak Oil. It has to do with control of oil and its price. How?
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sawyerloggingon said:
I am in the all of the above camp. Drill baby drill even.
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Well, since I believe Global Warming means we have more heat (warmth-hot air) in the atmosphere, then I think we need to burn lots less oil and wasting 87% of its' energy as lost heat (warmth-hot air) to the atmosphere seems pretty ignorant. Of course, the inimitable Rick Perry, holder of the local world record for executions, GWSnotForBrains is now 2nd, says Global Warming is a media invention. I, of course, am just a lowly turd form the boondocks, but if I don't stop putting hot air in my house, the house gets hotter. Who'd a thunk it?
 
Drill baby drill only works to reduce oil prices if Asia's demand doesn't increase with the rate of advancement and/or all oil produced in the US can only be sold in the US's market. Without either of these, US supply will not keep up with global demand.

Now, here's an interesting theory. Senator Sanders is claiming that "over speculation" is causing gas prices to skyrocket. He uses the time when the future's market was dominated by a few companies. What if its not "over speculation" though. What if these huge investment firms are providing cartelalizing services to gas companies by buying up all oil futures when supply gets to high, then dumping them when demand drops. This would similar to what the coal mining unions did in the ... 60s (example was given in Capitalism and Freedom by Friedman)?
 
Drill here and build a a lot more refineries and regulate speculators as it once was. The problem with this is that it will take about 10 to 20 years to achieve, so the bottom line is we are F'ed and the politicians knew this would happen 10 to 20 years ago,..both parties knew. Just goes to show you that party loyalty only gets us all the Washington Weeny.
 
xpiher said:
Drill baby drill only works to reduce oil prices if Asia's demand doesn't increase with the rate of advancement and/or all oil produced in the US can only be sold in the US's market. Without either of these, US supply will not keep up with global demand.

Now, here's an interesting theory. Senator Sanders is claiming that "over speculation" is causing gas prices to skyrocket. He uses the time when the future's market was dominated by a few companies. What if its not "over speculation" though. What if these huge investment firms are providing cartelalizing services to gas companies by buying up all oil futures when supply gets to high, then dumping them when demand drops. This would similar to what the coal mining unions did in the ... 60s (example was given in Capitalism and Freedom by Friedman)?
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Even with all the drilling we currently do not have the capacity to refine it to bring the prices down, we need refineries or we are screwed.
 
deltabtry said:
Even with all the drilling we currently do not have the capacity to refine it to bring the prices down, we need refineries or we are screwed.
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Even with refineries prices will rise. Oil being a global commodity and whatnot.

Unless you want the government to literally seize American oil companies and force them to sell only in the United States. ;)
 
cruderuns.jpg
deltabtry said:
Even with all the drilling we currently do not have the capacity to refine it to bring the prices down, we need refineries or we are screwed.
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Not really


ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ns/oil_market_basics/ref_image_crude_runs.htm



Atmospheric crude oil distillation capacity at U.S. refineries was 17.7 million barrels per day at the beginning of 2011 according to the EIA's Refinery Capacity Report. Capacity, which was 0.15 million barrels per day above its level at the start of 2010, reached the highest level recorded since 1982. Since 2001, total net U.S. refinery capacity grew by more than 1 million barrels per day. There were 148 refineries operating in the US at the beginning of 2011.
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Refinery capacity is increasing through expansion of exisiting facilities and unprofitable ones are being shut down. Due to the high costs of building refineries and low margins most companies are loath to invest in new ones. Heck even oil friendly Alberta which would have loved to have seen a new refinery and upgrader built in Edmonton was passed over to send crude to the US for processing at exisiting facilities. The oil companies did not want to invest in a new facility



U.S. Crude Oil Refining Capacity Near 30-year High (Guest Post) | EconMatters
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
View attachment 67115190

Not really


ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ns/oil_market_basics/ref_image_crude_runs.htm






Refinery capacity is increasing through expansion of exisiting facilities and unprofitable ones are being shut down. Due to the high costs of building refineries and low margins most companies are loath to invest in new ones. Heck even oil friendly Alberta which would have loved to have seen a new refinery and upgrader built in Edmonton was passed over to send crude to the US for processing at exisiting facilities. The oil companies did not want to invest in a new facility



U.S. Crude Oil Refining Capacity Near 30-year High (Guest Post) | EconMatters
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I think there is partial truth to the notion of limited capacity, as we are more or less at full capacity now. Achieving 100% isn't possible.
 
VanceMack said:
Perhaps her plan is to allow for more ready access to the existing US oil fields that have been unused. Assuming she isnt advocating for nationalization (which is a pretty safe assumption considering her position on the expanded role of government) the only way she could influence greatly reduced gas prices is to increase supply or dramitically reduce demand. Might be interesting to actually know her plan.
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wouldn't it though? and if she is a real american, why is she withholding her wisdom? she's got no freaking plan, she's a moron.
 
maybe she will just say that she "hopes" that gas prices will "change" and convert all of the messiahs minions......they sure fell for that garbage
 
fishinRod said:
maybe she will just say that she "hopes" that gas prices will "change" and convert all of the messiahs minions......they sure fell for that garbage
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So you're saying that she's running on "hope" and "change?" I'm sure she'll convince her followers that she can do what Obama and Bush both failed at.
 
rocket88 said:
So you're saying that she's running on "hope" and "change?" I'm sure she'll convince her followers that she can do what Obama and Bush both failed at.
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She is one of the tea baggers one of those who oppose regulating speculators.


One of the reasons that gas,oil and other products are so high is because of speculators and naturally the republicans want to block any bill that will control or regulate speculators.

While the GOP refuses to include tax increases and insists on cutting programs that help the poor and elderly they support speculators who drive up the price of all products. If you support the GOP or their tea bagger buddies you are condoning their supporting the increased financial burden on our poor and elderly

Speculating directly or indirectly effects the price of every thing we buy. Speculating on life essential needs should not just be regulated it should be illegal,anyone engaging in speculating on life essential needs should go to jail

EXCLUSIVE: Eric Cantor Promises Oil Speculators That Republicans Will Block Financial Regulations | ThinkProgress

EXCLUSIVE: Eric Cantor Promises Oil Speculators That Republicans Will Block Financial Regulations
By Lee Fang on May 18, 2011 at 11:30 am

Yesterday morning, House Majority Leader Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) visited the Chicago headquarters of the CME Group, “the world’s largest owner and operator” of private exchanges for derivatives products. CME Group specializes in a number of markets, including trading futures contracts for various blends of crude oil and food commodities. Cantor met with executives, and at one point, gave brief remarks before CME Group employees and various commodity speculators.

Cantor told the audience of speculators that his Republican caucus would “do our part” to block the implementation of financial reforms passed last year as part of the sweeping Dodd-Frank law. He even called out the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the regulators in charge of overseeing derivatives and energy speculation, and promised to stop regulations from going online:

Currently, energy speculation is at an all time record high. In 2008, according to many analysts, oil speculation — which took place on unregulated private exchanges owned by the CME Group and a set of international exchanges — spiked gas prices to unprecedented levels. Now, excessive oil speculation is again driving the pain at the pump. While Goldman Sachs has claimed that at least $25 of the current price of crude oil is due to speculation, financial experts contacted by ThinkProgress say the Goldman Sachs number is probably very conservative.

Although the Dodd-Frank reforms passed last year included a new mandate for regulators to curb rampant oil speculation, these regulations have not yet been implemented. Republicans, under Cantor’s leadership, are working furiously to ensure that they never will be. For instance, Cantor’s caucus has proposed massive budget cuts to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission — the regulatory body charged with overseeing oil speculators at the CME Group. As the New York Times has reported, CFTC regulators literally do not have enough money even for staplers, and can barely enforce laws on the books before even getting to new Dodd-Frank rules. In addition, Republicans are also pushing a separate bill to delay Dodd-Frank derivatives reforms for at least eighteen months.
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liblady said:
wouldn't it though? and if she is a real american, why is she withholding her wisdom? she's got no freaking plan, she's a moron.
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Im inclined to agree that she like most of the dancing bears are just that. Well...OK...not a 'moron'...she obviously has both book and political savvy. She's not a moron...she's worse...she's a 'politician.'

But hey...along with that whole 'real American' thing...if that is the standard, then what does it say about John Kerry who never did tell us what his plans were...or Barrack Obama for that matter who promised to tell us HIS plan...in...September (and geez...wouldnt it be nice if he had done it 2.5 years ago). I'm still just on pins and needles to see his 'plan.' (I'm betting on "increased taxes (errr...more 'revenues') on the richest people to make them pay more of their "fair share" and an increased stimulus plan for more shovel ready projects")
 
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In an earlier post I said gas was around $2.80 when Bush left office so gas going under 2 bucks was a reasonable thing to say. I was wrong, gas was $1.79 when Bush left office. Gas getting back under 2 bucks seems very reasonable indeed. gasbuddy.com

Feeling pain at the pump? Gas prices have doubled since Mr. Obama took office. According to the GasBuddy gasoline price tracking web site, the price of a gallon of regular gas was around $1.79 when Mr. Obama took office. Today the national average is $3.58. The lowest average price in the continental United States is $3.31 in Tulsa Oklahoma, the highest is $4.14 in Santa Barbara, CA. Four-dollar-a-gallon gas has arrived on average throughout California, and a number of other states are headed in that direction.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
View attachment 67115190

Not really


ftp://ftp.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ns/oil_market_basics/ref_image_crude_runs.htm






Refinery capacity is increasing through expansion of exisiting facilities and unprofitable ones are being shut down. Due to the high costs of building refineries and low margins most companies are loath to invest in new ones. Heck even oil friendly Alberta which would have loved to have seen a new refinery and upgrader built in Edmonton was passed over to send crude to the US for processing at exisiting facilities. The oil companies did not want to invest in a new facility



U.S. Crude Oil Refining Capacity Near 30-year High (Guest Post) | EconMatters
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I agree with most of your statement except that we do need more refineries, it is true that it is producing more fuel but our refineries still can not keep up with demand, and. Also with fifty different states with 50 different regulations for fuel also puts a extreme burden on our refineries to refine fuel in a timely manner for all states.

Question for you, why do you think oil refineries are so expensive to build?
 
deltabtry said:
I agree with most of your statement except that we do need more refineries, it is true that it is producing more fuel but our refineries still can not keep up with demand, and. Also with fifty different states with 50 different regulations for fuel also puts a extreme burden on our refineries to refine fuel in a timely manner for all states.

Question for you, why do you think oil refineries are so expensive to build?
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I am not saying we dont need new ones, more that oil companies do not want to build new ones. Refining is a low margin business, made even less profitable when excess capacity exists. New refineries means excess capacity and lower margins if not loss`s

As for refineries. I cant comment on the US but in Alberta the very high cost of labour and equipment would be the answer. The engineering alone would be a high cost with the engineers making $100 000 per year just during the design phase, not to mention the construction phase. The labour to construct a refinery and upgrader ( upgrading would be required in Alberta) would be costing over $100 000 per year without much overtime for the skilled labour ( welders, millwrights etc). Environmental costs would be generally minor in comparison ( in Alberta at least), with most environmental costs being in the continous monitoring of emmissions and ground water.

In 2001 skilled millwrights working at Albion Sands could earn $120 000 a year, millwrights with supervisor experience could earn $160 000 a year. the recruitment process would pay for the relocation and provide a large bonus
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I am not saying we dont need new ones, more that oil companies do not want to build new ones. Refining is a low margin business, made even less profitable when excess capacity exists. New refineries means excess capacity and lower margins if not loss`s

As for refineries. I cant comment on the US but in Alberta the very high cost of labour and equipment would be the answer. The engineering alone would be a high cost with the engineers making $100 000 per year just during the design phase, not to mention the construction phase. The labour to construct a refinery and upgrader ( upgrading would be required in Alberta) would be costing over $100 000 per year without much overtime for the skilled labour ( welders, millwrights etc). Environmental costs would be generally minor in comparison ( in Alberta at least), with most environmental costs being in the continous monitoring of emmissions and ground water.

In 2001 skilled millwrights working at Albion Sands could earn $120 000 a year, millwrights with supervisor experience could earn $160 000 a year. the recruitment process would pay for the relocation and provide a large bonus
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Again I agree with your answer and with the exception of the speculators, regulations ,EPA, location and placement, lawsuits etc. all this will drive up the cost for any new build and in turn drive the cost up at the pump.. The bottom line is that we can bring the price down of we really wish to, but IMO it isn't going to happen.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
In an earlier post I said gas was around $2.80 when Bush left office so gas going under 2 bucks was a reasonable thing to say. I was wrong, gas was $1.79 when Bush left office. Gas getting back under 2 bucks seems very reasonable indeed. gasbuddy.com

Feeling pain at the pump? Gas prices have doubled since Mr. Obama took office. According to the GasBuddy gasoline price tracking web site, the price of a gallon of regular gas was around $1.79 when Mr. Obama took office. Today the national average is $3.58. The lowest average price in the continental United States is $3.31 in Tulsa Oklahoma, the highest is $4.14 in Santa Barbara, CA. Four-dollar-a-gallon gas has arrived on average throughout California, and a number of other states are headed in that direction.
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That low price of $1.79 was a result of the near collapse of the banking industry. The economy entered a major downturn, demand for gas went down, therefore the price did. It's called "Supply and Demand." Just before that, the price was much higher.

So unless her plan to have another collapse...

What in her plan makes you think it's reasonable? I looked on her website, and it's full of the normal GOP rhetoric, but no specifics. Drilling is likely to cause OPEC to drop their production proportionately, because they like high oil prices. What else is in it?
 
deltabtry said:
Again I agree with your answer and with the exception of the speculators, regulations ,EPA, location and placement, lawsuits etc. all this will drive up the cost for any new build and in turn drive the cost up at the pump.. The bottom line is that we can bring the price down of we really wish to, but IMO it isn't going to happen.
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I did mention that I can not comment on the US but was discussing Alberta in general. The Edmonton area has quite a few refineries already and many Albertans were hoping to see another one built or have one massively expanded to handle the oils sands crude. Instead of seeking to build on in Alberta the oil company decided to build a pipeline to ship raw crude to the southern US. Lawsuits, regulations and location costs would have been rather minor costs. We are talking about a province that allows rather large megaprojects that include strip mining of massive sections of land. Despite all that the oil company felt it was a better deal to ship the crude through a brandnew pipeline ( a few hundred million dollar if not billion dollar expense, as they ship diluent back to Alberta through an adjacent pipeline) then to build or massively expand an existing refinery
 
apdst said:
Removing them would definitely lower the price of fuel.
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You offering for the trucking industry to start picking the full tab for road construction and maintenance?
 
And Happy Birthday from Elvis Presley.
Or did I get that backwards?
 
rocket88 said:
That low price of $1.79 was a result of the near collapse of the banking industry. The economy entered a major downturn, demand for gas went down, therefore the price did. It's called "Supply and Demand." Just before that, the price was much higher.

So unless her plan to have another collapse...

What in her plan makes you think it's reasonable? I looked on her website, and it's full of the normal GOP rhetoric, but no specifics. Drilling is likely to cause OPEC to drop their production proportionately, because they like high oil prices. What else is in it?
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Congratulations you are the first lib I have seen in here that recognizes law of supply and demand but in case you haven’t noticed economy as of now sucks. If you are saying gas has doubled under Obama due to a booming economy….:lol:
 
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