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Bachmann: I'll get gas under $2

If oil sells at $30/barrell, the oil companies can't make $30/barrell. They can't make their margen at $70/barrell either. They need high oil prices to make $30/barrell.[/QUOT

To be honest I would be happy with consistant oil prices, anything under $100.00 a barrel that we could count on from our own reserves would make me smile. I am tired of being jerked around by OPEC.

They can't make money from shale oil if oil is cheap. You can change your argument as many times as you like but you can't escape that fact.
 
She is one of the tea baggers one of those who oppose regulating speculators.

One of the reasons that gas,oil and other products are so high is because of speculators and naturally the republicans want to block any bill that will control or regulate speculators.

Speculating on life essential needs should not just be regulated it should be illegal,anyone engaging in speculating on life essential needs should go to jail

1. Outlawing "speculation" is akin to outlawing "investing." Good luck with that one. And good luck understanding the flow of liquidity through a commodity market to primary producers without your "speculators." They are an essential part to a smoothly functioning market. That being said, margin requirements should be reasonable, and naked positions could be regulated or outlawed...

2. The reason the price of oil is what it is... is simply what someone will pay for it. Behold: the intersection of the supply schedule and the demand schedule yields the price!

3. Humans lived for well over 100,000 years without using oil. Just saying.
 
This has to be one of the most absurd things I have read to date on this forum. "$1.79 was the result of the near collapse of the banking industry"? Then you follow it up with this gem; "Drilling is likely to cause OPEC to drop their production proportionately."

Listen, if you want $2.00 per gallon gas within a year (probably much less than $2.00), here is what ANY politician could propose:
1) Allow all of America's oil to be drilled and or minded.
2) Eliminate any governmental/legal regulation associated with drilling, refining and transporting of the oil/gas
3) Eliminate any and all environmental regulations associated with any aspect of the supply chain.
4) Heavily subsidize through tax breaks and credits any corporate entity willing to make this investment.

There you have it, a simple 4 step plan to $2.00 oil. In other words, flood the market with supply (or the potential for supply) market prices drop...simple economics.

But at what cost would the $2 gas come? Not all costs have an associated dollar value. As a matter of fact, air and water are invaluable matters of survival, whereas dollars have no intrinsic value whatsoever. You propose a poor trade indeed.
 
Corporatism is socialism for corporations rather then for people.

I'm so confused... I thought corporations were people too? :mrgreen:

If I'm not mistaken, "corporatism" is a euphamism for fascism... but we can't call it that, can we...
 
1. Outlawing "speculation" is akin to outlawing "investing." Good luck with that one. And good luck understanding the flow of liquidity through a commodity market to primary producers without your "speculators." They are an essential part to a smoothly functioning market. That being said, margin requirements should be reasonable, and naked positions could be regulated or outlawed...

2. The reason the price of oil is what it is... is simply what someone will pay for it. Behold: the intersection of the supply schedule and the demand schedule yields the price!

3. Humans lived for well over 100,000 years without using oil. Just saying.

BS Wall Street is the largest ponzi scheme ever divised, For the insiders Wall Street is like going to Atlantic City and knowing which one arm bandits are ready to pay off, those out of the loop put money in and those in the loop take it out
 
You know, the interesting thing about this thread is the moment someone begins a discussion that is of interest to conservatives, they immediately forget about all the arguments of "big government" and "the free market system" or whether or not "government plays a role in our lives". Yet, here we have all this chatter over how Congresswoman Bachmann may be able to achieve her foolish promise of bringing down the cost of gas to $2.00 a galloon and the best ways to do that go contrary to conservative ideology - "big government" via government subsidizing a private sector industry -- more government spending and possibly more federal regulations.

Truth is, it's going to take alot more than government subsidies to big oil, opening our SOR, or implementing more domestic drilling in order to bring down the cost of gas to $2 levels long-term. The U.S. dollar will remain the world's reserve currency atleast for the next 20-30 years if not longer where purchasing oil from OPEC-member countries are concerned. And as long as it remains such, the dollar will play a role in the global marketplace. As long as oil supplies remain constant and affordable, the U.S. will continue to buy it from abroad.

There's a book I'm reading entitled, "Bad Money," by Kevin Phillips. He goes into great detail to explain the connection between the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency and how the dollar is closely tied to foreign oil. There's alot more to it, but if folks have been paying close attention to events over the last 30 years but in particular the last 7-8 years, you'll know that $2/galloon gas is a pipe-dream. The only way it happens without involving more big government and increasing the national debt/deficit OR going to war with yet another oil-rich nation is to take on many of the energy initiatives President Obama has been calling for - more energy efficient vehicles, trading with non-Middle-Eastern/OPEC nations, implementing more energy efficiency in our domestic appliances, relying more on alternative/renewable energy, building more energy-efficient homes and commercial buildings. Fact is, even if we open up our SOR or implement more domestic drilling, neither are the end-solution to $2 gas long-term. We have to do alot more in order to get there. For all practical purposes, President Obama is trying to lead the way in that area and would have far greater success if folks in Congress would just listen and stop being so damn partisan/obstructionist and looking out moreso for lobbyist/corporate interest rather than what's best for the country.
 
The majority of oil that is still recoverable in the United States is not economically recoverable when oil prices are such that gas at the pump is less than 2 dollars a gallon. Take the Bakken Shale formation in North Dakota and western Montana. By some USGS estimates, there is around 270 billion barrels of oil in that formation. However, only around 2.1 billion barrels of that oil is technically recoverable with current technology, and because it is so expensive to recover shale oil, its only economically recoverable when oil prices are very high. There is oil boom in North Dakota because oil prices are near 100 dollar a barrel. If oil prices were to significantly drop, that oil would no longer be economically recoverable, and thus the North Dakota oil boom would end.



Thats a good idea :roll:. In the hopes that it would lead to lower prices at the pump, we could eliminate all environmental regulations on the domestic oil industry. That way they would not have to concern themselves with petty concerns "water pollution", "fowling of lands", "wildlife protection". The end result would be our oil fields would look like the oil fields in nations that don't have those "governmental / legal regulations":

View attachment 67115231



Another great idea :roll:, that way we can have the same air and water quality that nations that lack those environmental regulations get to enjoy. Our cities get to look like this on the promise that gas will get cheaper:

View attachment 67115232



Another great idea. :roll: Not only should energy companies get to fowl our land, air, and water for the promise of cheaper gas, they should get even more taxpayer subsidized corporate welfare despite being the some of the most profitable companies in the history of civilization to begin with.



No, what you presented is a 4 step plan for the fowling of our air, land, and water, and the destruction of our quality of life that is made possible because of environmental regulation and oversight. The difference between our air, land, and water, and the environment in places like China are those regulations and oversight. Many of the same multinational energy companies that relatively cleanly produce oil in the United States, have also desecrated the environments of third world nations they have worked in. Our environmental protections and oversight are what prevents them from doing the same here.

Some of you guys on the anti-environment right are fools. Corporations don't pollute out of the goodness of their hearts, they mitigate pollution associated with oil extraction and production because they are legally compelled to do so in the United States. Visit a country that does not have those environmental regulations. Go to China, breath their air. Walk outside on a clear day and look up and notice how you can't even see the sun because of all the smog in the air. Notice how your eyes burn just walking down the sidewalk. Drink their water, oh, but you can't its undrinkable. Even citizens of China have to drink bottled water. You don't even hear birds in their parks there. Practically the entire country is an environmental nightmare. That is what you get when you do away with all those pesky environmental regulations.

This is what American oil companies, the same companies that drill here, have done in Nigeria when they were free from all those burdensome regulations:

View attachment 67115233

Let me address these separately. The Bakken Formation in ND and Montana have an estimate 3.775 Billion Barrels of recoverable oil currently according to the USGS. Furthermore it is estimated that this oil could be extracted at a mere $16 per barrel. I am not talking about shale oil, I am talking about proven and viably ex tractable oil using current technology. These numbers increase exponentially as technologies in this area advance. Regardless, at a cost basis of only $16 per barrel your assertion that the ND oil boom would bust should the world market price for oil drop any further south than $100 per barrel, is not only misleading, it is outright wrong.

You mean ending regulations in much the same way as the Chinese government has? Here is a link to a picture of an oil derrick from the big bad non-regulated Chinese:
http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00654/oil_rigs_china-s_654587cl-8.jpg
I don't see any of the 'following of the lands' as you alluded to. Is this what you were alluding to when you suggested "The end result would be our oil fields would look like the oil fields in nations that don't have those "governmental / legal regulations". Please leave the sensationalized posts to the NY Times.

As for air quality, here is what modern day China looks like--I'm not seeing any pollution....
Google ImagesBut then again in the highly regulated United States we surly will not see any non-breathable air. How about a picture of modern day Los Angeles. Governmental regulations saves lives right?
Los Angeles California Downtown Mountains Plane Smog | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Please...I can play your game too.

By the way, I have been to China many times. Hong Kong is by far the most beautiful city I have been to in the world. As for your assertion that you cannot hear the birds in the parks in China, I'm calling you a liar. Look there goes a flock of birds now (see link below) somewhere close to Hong Kong...I can almost hear them crying 'fowl' to your sensationalism even from here in my very polluted yet regulated homeland.
Dscf0707.jpg photo - vincent chan photos at pbase.com
Maybe next time when you try to discredit my original post you will actually attempt to engage me in a well thought out rebuttal as opposed to the tomfoolery you are attempting to pass off as fact.
 
BS Wall Street is the largest ponzi scheme ever divised, For the insiders Wall Street is like going to Atlantic City and knowing which one arm bandits are ready to pay off, those out of the loop put money in and those in the loop take it out
Here's how you control excessive speculation:

H.R. 2003 will deter speculation by raising the cost to bet on oil markets. By charging a miniscule 0.01 percent tax on each transaction, excessive speculation would become too expensive and risky. Discouraging excessive oil speculation will lower gas prices up to 80 cents a gallon because it does not tax oil, just Wall Street speculators.

DEFAZIO FIGHTS FOR LOWER GAS PRICES BY REINING IN SPECULATION
 
I’m on the fence about oil speculation, I hear both sides of the issue but can’t make up my mind on it yet which is very unusual for me, I am nothing if not opinionated.

The problem with speculation isn't the act itself, its the fact that to speculate you only need something like 10% of the money you are actually spending on the product upfront.
 
I'm so confused... I thought corporations were people too? :mrgreen:

If I'm not mistaken, "corporatism" is a euphamism for fascism... but we can't call it that, can we...

I do, to those stupid enough to consider Social Security to be Marxism.
 
Let me address these separately. The Bakken Formation in ND and Montana have an estimate 3.775 Billion Barrels of recoverable oil currently according to the USGS. Furthermore it is estimated that this oil could be extracted at a mere $16 per barrel. I am not talking about shale oil, I am talking about proven and viably ex tractable oil using current technology. These numbers increase exponentially as technologies in this area advance. Regardless, at a cost basis of only $16 per barrel your assertion that the ND oil boom would bust should the world market price for oil drop any further south than $100 per barrel, is not only misleading, it is outright wrong.

You mean ending regulations in much the same way as the Chinese government has? Here is a link to a picture of an oil derrick from the big bad non-regulated Chinese:
http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/00654/oil_rigs_china-s_654587cl-8.jpg
I don't see any of the 'following of the lands' as you alluded to. Is this what you were alluding to when you suggested "The end result would be our oil fields would look like the oil fields in nations that don't have those "governmental / legal regulations". Please leave the sensationalized posts to the NY Times.

As for air quality, here is what modern day China looks like--I'm not seeing any pollution....
Google ImagesBut then again in the highly regulated United States we surly will not see any non-breathable air. How about a picture of modern day Los Angeles. Governmental regulations saves lives right?
Los Angeles California Downtown Mountains Plane Smog | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Please...I can play your game too.

By the way, I have been to China many times. Hong Kong is by far the most beautiful city I have been to in the world. As for your assertion that you cannot hear the birds in the parks in China, I'm calling you a liar. Look there goes a flock of birds now (see link below) somewhere close to Hong Kong...I can almost hear them crying 'fowl' to your sensationalism even from here in my very polluted yet regulated homeland.
Dscf0707.jpg photo - vincent chan photos at pbase.com
Maybe next time when you try to discredit my original post you will actually attempt to engage me in a well thought out rebuttal as opposed to the tomfoolery you are attempting to pass off as fact.

I never in thousands of posts on here called anyone a liar, but I am pretty sure you are a liar. You say you have been the China many times, and mention going to Hong Kong.

I have been to Shanghai, Hong Kong, Guangzhou, and Nanchang. I have spent a few days in Hong Kong, and a few days in Shanghai. I have cumulatively spent a few weeks in Guangzhou and Nanchang. You are right that Hong Kong is a beautiful city. From Kowloon, It has one of the most striking skylines on earth. However, thanks to all of the industry along the Pearl River Delta, air pollution in Hong Kong far exceeds any U.S. city. Air pollution in Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are days in Hong Kong when the air is so foul that many people walk around wearing face masks to help filter out the particulates in the air. One day I ran up the mountains above central Hong Kong, the smog was so thick that day that from the top of Victoria Peak, you could only see the tallest buildings, and Kowloon across the harbor was not even visible.

Shanghai is literally one of the most polluted cities on the face of the earth. No U.S. city even remotely compares with it.

Due to rapid industrial and economic development, as well as lax governmental environment policies, Shanghai has recently been ranked as one of the most polluted cities in the world. Individuals with asthma or respiratory issues should be prepared when visiting the city.

Study in Shanghai, China - Study In China

There are days in Shanghai when the pollution is so thick that you can hardly see Pudong from the Bund.

In 2006 I spent a week in Nanchang, China and despite there being clear skies, never one time saw the sun. I spent a week there again in 2009. Because of recent rains washing particulates from the air, there were days when you could see the sky, but only by looking directly overhead, a brown haze still engulfed the city.

I have spent time in Guangzhou as well. Same story, the only time you could see a blue sky was after it rained and the particulates were washed from the air. One day while there I hiked to the top of White Cloud Mountain and could only see a few miles because of the smog, and that was one of the clearest days I was there.

Even flying over China you notice the pollution, most of the time you cannot see the ground from the air, even over rural areas a persistent smoggy haze obscures the ground from the air. The Chinese people live in an environment that is incomprehensible to westerners that have never visited the country. They never see the kind of blue skies we enjoy here. They don't have the unspoiled wilderness we still have in places here. Unpolluted water is practically nonexistent there. Much of the country is an environmental wasteland, more spoiled and polluted than anywhere in the United States. Which is why I am pretty sure you have never traveled there, because the pollution there is not just something I noticed, its something that every westerner talks about that has visited the country. The common theme one hears again and again is that "its a great country to visit with all of the culture and history, but the pollution was absolutely horrible".

If you want to hold up unregulated China as an environmental model for the United States, then you are a liar and a fool.
 
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I never in thousands of posts on here called anyone a liar, but I am pretty sure you are a liar. You say you have been the China many times, and mention going to Hong Kong.

I have been to Shanghai, Hong Kong, Guangzhou, and Nanchang. I have spent a few days in Hong Kong, and a few days in Shanghai. I have cumulatively spent a few weeks in Guangzhou and Nanchang. You are right that Hong Kong is a beautiful city. From Kowloon, It has one of the most striking skylines on earth. However, thanks to all of the industry along the Pearl River Delta, air pollution in Hong Kong far exceeds any U.S. city. Air pollution in Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are days in Hong Kong when the air is so foul that many people walk around wearing face masks to help filter out the particulates in the air. One day I ran up the mountains above central Hong Kong, the smog was so thick that day that from the top of Victoria Peak, you could only see the tallest buildings, and Kowloon across the harbor was not even visible.

Shanghai is literally one of the most polluted cities on the face of the earth. No U.S. city even remotely compares with it.



Study in Shanghai, China - Study In China

There are days in Shanghai when the pollution is so thick that you can hardly see Pudong from the Bund.

In 2006 I spent a week in Nanchang, China and despite there being clear skies, never one time saw the sun. I spent a week there again in 2009. Because of recent rains washing particulates from the air, there were days when you could see the sky, but only by looking directly overhead, a brown haze still engulfed the city.

I have spent time in Guangzhou as well. Same story, the only time you could see a blue sky was after it rained and the particulates were washed from the air. One day while there I hiked to the top of White Cloud Mountain and could only see a few miles because of the smog, and that was one of the clearest days I was there.

Even flying over China you notice the pollution, most of the time you cannot see the ground from the air, even over rural areas a persistent smoggy haze obscures the ground from the air. The Chinese people live in an environment that is incomprehensible to westerners that have never visited the country. They never see the kind of blue skies we enjoy here. They don't have the unspoiled wilderness we still have in places here. Unpolluted water is practically nonexistent there. Much of the country is an environmental wasteland, more spoiled and polluted than anywhere in the United States. Which is why I am pretty sure you have never traveled there, because the pollution there is not just something I noticed, its something that every westerner talks about that has visited the country. The common theme one hears again and again is that "its a great country to visit with all of the culture and history, but the pollution was absolutely horrible".

If you want to hold up unregulated China as an environmental model for the United States, then you are a liar and a fool.

Nope been to Hong Kong on many different occasions, and I think we both agree that Hong Kong has the most striking skyline on the planet. The sheer amount of skyscrapers built into the surrounding mountainsides is awe inspiring. There is no U.S. city as modern and impressive as Hong Kong. Walking though Customs at HKIA and seeing the thermal imaging body scanners alone, is something straight out of science fiction movies (total recall). I have also ventured onto the mainland, Shenzhen to be exact and and played most of the golf courses at Mission Hills. Gambled in the Casino's in Macau (larger and more luxurious than anything on Vegas's Strip) though not enough blackjack tables for my taste as I do not enjoy playing Baccarat. Admittedly, I have never ventured to Shanghai so can't speak with authority on the pollution problems they have there, but to characterize Hong Kong in the way you do, is not an accurate portrayal. As a result you can't blame me if I don't succumb to your portrayal of Shanghai. While I am not going to sit here and say that pollution is not a problem in Hong Kong, the fact is, I do not see it as more of a problem than say Los Angles or even Chicago. Your the one who attempted to use sensationalized pictures to paint your 'drilling equates to mass pollution' charge. I just called you out on it and used similar pictures of my own. The reality is your pollution argument is weak, there is no creditable evidence to suggest that lowing regulations in our own country will result in the catastrophic images you are attempting to suggest. Only fear and ignorance will perpetuate your claim. The reality is, governmental regulation of most kinds only taxes our ability as a nation to prosper. So if you want to hold up the regulated United States as an economic model, then you are only lying to yourself and are the bigger fool.

I again assert my claim that Candidate Bachmann's claim of $2 per gallon gasoline is not only possible, but easily achievable if her plan were to be anywhere similar to mine. Oh yeah, one last thing...I have no problem hearing the birds in Hong Kong.
 
I again assert my claim that Candidate Bachmann's claim of $2 per gallon gasoline is not only possible, but easily achievable if her plan were to be anywhere similar to mine. Oh yeah, one last thing...I have no problem hearing the birds in Hong Kong.

Sorry to jump in here, but what specifically is your plan that would get gas to 2$/gallon???

Gas is going to go up to 6-8$ / gallon in the relatively near future (1-2 years) on dollar devaluation alone.

Oh, and if you believe that Bachmann has ANY INTENTION of actually following through on the promise, EVEN IF she ACTUALLY had the capacity to do such a thing (without completely restructuring the economy), well, I should tell you about how I'm actually a zimbabwean prince that needs a few thousand dollars so that I can cash out on this million dollar investment and I'll share it all with you, cause I'm really nice like that.

Seriously, why do people actually treat this pre-election rhetoric as though it has ANY weight to it what so ever??? The only person up there that has ANY integrity in what they are saying is Ron Paul as far as that goes, but people rather believe this type of garbage that probably can't even be backed up by anything substantial like facts and figures.
 
Your a Zimbabwean prince with a name like BmanMcfly? My question to you is do you have a pollution problem in Zimbabwe? LOL Actually your post made me laugh, so thanks.

Your right about dollar devaluation, as that is a very serious concern, especially with our current President spending money like a drunken sailor in a Chinese port of call.

As for my plan, it is a few pages back and does not take into account the affects that inflation will have on our collective purchasing power as a nation. In am only speaking in a theoretical nature when making the claim that $2 a gallon gas is a possibility based off of today's economics.

As for pre-election rhetoric, you again might be right. However, better to vote for candidate that talks a good game, than the candidate that has no game at all (I'm not talking about Ron Paul).
 
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Your a Zimbabwean prince with a name like BmanMcfly? My question to you is do you have a pollution problem in Zimbabwe? LOL Actually your post made me laugh, so thanks.

I was just saying like, who actually BELIEVES these people, everyone knows they just say whatever the hell they feel will get them elected... exception being Ron Paul who has given roughly the same message for decades and has a voting record to back it up. Nobody seriously believes these candidates will deliver, do they??

Technically speaking, the president has NO CONTROL over inflation in ANY WAY. That process is fully the responsibility of the federal reserve bank.

Your right about dollar devaluation, as that is a very serious concern, especially with our current President spending money like a drunken sailor in a Chinese port of call.

Yes, but he's only really responding to the situation... this is something that's been going on since, well, clinton at least, but probably Bush Sr, and has turned the 'two parties' into something more like deciding who runs the next leg of the relay race as we approach the line. Just to say, this can't really be blamed on the president per se, as much as the "special interests" that guide his decisions.

As for my plan, it is a few pages back and does not take into account the affects that inflation will have on our collective purchasing power as a nation. In am only speaking in a theoretical nature when making the claim that $2 a gallon gas is a possibility based off of today's economics.

Ok, well, roughly speaking, we are still paying the same for gas as we've payed since the price dropped following the Russians becoming the worlds largest oil producer. (About 70$/barrel). The only difference is that the value of the dollar itself has depreciated to the extent that it still might cost you 2-2.50$/barrel, but the number of dollars that you have to pay at the pump is more for the same amount of gas. (Not counting any taxes that have been added in between that period).

As for pre-election rhetoric, you again might be right. However, better to vote for candidate that talks a good game, than the candidate that has no game at all (I'm not talking about Ron Paul).

Of course it's rhetoric, that's why the MSM and the republican / neo-con party is so scared of Ron Paul that the only time they don't ignore him is to say he can't win. MEANWHILE, Rick Perry has come out trying to emulate Ron Paul (but I think enough people are aware how he made it mandatory (recommendation) for the HPV vaccine for girls that people might still see through it).

How much of Obama's campaign promises held through??? (The promises he made to the people = 0, the promises he made to "special interests" = 100%)

They are ALL corrupt, I don't get how people can trust a politician for a second, at least if they don't have a track record backing up their position.
 
Nope been to Hong Kong on many different occasions, and I think we both agree that Hong Kong has the most striking skyline on the planet. The sheer amount of skyscrapers built into the surrounding mountainsides is awe inspiring. There is no U.S. city as modern and impressive as Hong Kong. Walking though Customs at HKIA and seeing the thermal imaging body scanners alone, is something straight out of science fiction movies (total recall). I have also ventured onto the mainland, Shenzhen to be exact and and played most of the golf courses at Mission Hills. Gambled in the Casino's in Macau (larger and more luxurious than anything on Vegas's Strip) though not enough blackjack tables for my taste as I do not enjoy playing Baccarat. Admittedly, I have never ventured to Shanghai so can't speak with authority on the pollution problems they have there, but to characterize Hong Kong in the way you do, is not an accurate portrayal. As a result you can't blame me if I don't succumb to your portrayal of Shanghai. While I am not going to sit here and say that pollution is not a problem in Hong Kong, the fact is, I do not see it as more of a problem than say Los Angles or even Chicago. Your the one who attempted to use sensationalized pictures to paint your 'drilling equates to mass pollution' charge. I just called you out on it and used similar pictures of my own. The reality is your pollution argument is weak, there is no creditable evidence to suggest that lowing regulations in our own country will result in the catastrophic images you are attempting to suggest. Only fear and ignorance will perpetuate your claim. The reality is, governmental regulation of most kinds only taxes our ability as a nation to prosper. So if you want to hold up the regulated United States as an economic model, then you are only lying to yourself and are the bigger fool.

Hong Kong has the 9th worst air of any major city on earth.

The 10 Cities With the World's Worst Air - DailyFinance

Of the 20 most polluted cities on earth, 16 are in China. The World’s Top 20 Most Polluted Cities | Impact Lab

The air pollution is so bad in China that its visible from space:

dn6690-1_370.jpg


S1999324040624_md.jpg


See all that gray haze, thats is how thick the smog is. That is what a lack of environmental regulation looks like.
 
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