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CAFE standards for big rigs.

How often does a Corvette pull 4 times it's own weight? Hook up a trailer that gross's out at 10 thousand pounds and see how much fuel mileage it gets.

Really irrelevant. We doubled or nearly doubled the mileage, made it cleaner and more powerful. We can improve long haul truck numbers if we set out to do it.
 
Ok. Show us where it's going to be cheaper to operate these new fangled vehicles. Can't wait!

I asked you for numbers several times but got nothing.
 
Really irrelevant. We doubled or nearly doubled the mileage, made it cleaner and more powerful. We can improve long haul truck numbers if we set out to do it.

A corvette only has to move it's own weight. So, it's very relevant when you're talking about the difference in the energy required to move 2,000 pounds and 80,000 pounds+.
 
I asked you for numbers several times but got nothing.

Let's see your numbers. Tell us how it's going to be cheaper and save the working class money.

This is gonna be good.
 
Let's see your numbers. Tell us how it's going to be cheaper and save the working class money.

This is gonna be good.

You're the one that claimed this would have some sort of serious impact on small business. I'm not going to do your homework for you.
 
Yep:

"For all movements, rail fuel efficiency is higher than truck fuel efficiency in terms of ton-miles per gallon. The ratio between rail and truck fuel efficiency indicates how much more fuel efficient rail is in comparison to trucks."
www.fra.dot.gov/.../Comparative_Evaluation_Rail_Truck_Fuel_Efficiency

You realize that it takes the same amount of energy for a train to move X-tons of freight Y-miles, as a truck, right?

The trick math that they use to claim that a train can move 1 ton of freight 4 hundred-odd miles, is a load of ****.
 
You realize that it takes the same amount of energy for a train to move X-tons of freight Y-miles, as a truck, right?

The trick math that they use to claim that a train can move 1 ton of freight 4 hundred-odd miles, is a load of ****.

Only if you assume that the efficiency of converting heat energy to motive force between the two modes of transportation is the same.
It's not.
 
A corvette only has to move it's own weight. So, it's very relevant when you're talking about the difference in the energy required to move 2,000 pounds and 80,000 pounds+.

I'm not expecting a doubling in gas mileage. 30 years ago if you would have said that a Corvette would get in the upper 20's, do it cleanly and with more power it would have been said that it couldn't be done.

Part of the country's problem is that we have lost our vision for what we can do. Go to the moon? Are you crazy, can't be done.

We've just been complacent here.
 
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Only if you assume that the efficiency of converting heat energy to motive force between the two modes of transportation is the same.
It's not.

It's not? Freight trains don't use diesel engines? Since when???? :lamo
 
That would largely depend on how much. In a real capitalist society wealth doesn't have the same possibilities of growth that you will see in lets say this economy as this economy mixes protections of ideas into the market. In this market we try to maximum protections which actually just messes with the curve of where money is placed. On the other front we try to control the ideas by regulations like this which actually limit the growth of ideas in general. The argument for intellectual property law is that it protects property, in really however it protects ideas, not property. The argument for regulations is that protects the citizens. In reality both do considerable amount of harm for a small amount of return. If you want to fight the results of people dumping things in the ocean you just outlaw the activity. You don't try to tell the businesses how to avoid the problem as now its merely your ideas that are important in the system.

I somewhat agree. There is certainly a sliding scale in perception.

An authoritarian action is trying to reach the result the government desires. Murder laws do not fit the bill as it actions are merely to punish the people that do the action.

This is certainly a novel (to me at least) interpretation of this word.
 
I'm not expecting a doubling in gas mileage. 30 years ago if you would have said that a Corvette would get in the upper 20's, do it cleanly and with more power it would have been said that it couldn't be done.

Part of the country's problem is that we have lost our vision for what we can do. Go to the moon? Are you crazy, can't be done.

We've just been complacent here.

There are more variables involved in move 80,000 pounds than there are in moving 2,000 pounds.

I can get 8 mpg out of a bobtail tractor, but it's not going to happen pulling a load.
 
It's not? Freight trains don't use diesel engines? Since when???? :lamo

You're suggesting that the engines are the same? Same model? Really?

You're also assuming identical drag and friction ratios.
 
I'm not expecting a doubling in gas mileage. 30 years ago if you would have said that a Corvette would get in the upper 20's, do it cleanly and with more power it would have been said that it couldn't be done.

Part of the country's problem is that we have lost our vision for what we can do. Go to the moon? Are you crazy, can't be done.

We've just been complacent here.

I hope you realize that after market parts will improve your gas mileage and are made by people that actually have interest in doing it. Car companies have to deal with two different demands from the consumers and they can't do both unlike the other group of people that can do both as its more of individual service. The two demands that car companies have to deal with is first high horsepower and second is high gas mileage. You can't have both so the car companies pick the one that consumers demand more often, which is horsepower. If you want the later you should use the after market parts to improve your gas mileage. Trying say the market is not good enough because your demands that are actually in the minority should be listened to over the majority is not how a market works and its not how the country even should function. And like I said, with the existence of after market parts the argument has no feet as the demand is actually being dealt with. All that people have to do now is actually use the avenue to get their demand.
 
It's not? Freight trains don't use diesel engines? Since when???? :lamo

They use diesel electric motors and are moved along low friction steel rails. From an energy perspective they are far more efficient, they just lack the time aspect and have to pay the full cost of maintaining the transportation system
 
There are more variables involved in move 80,000 pounds than there are in moving 2,000 pounds.

I can get 8 mpg out of a bobtail tractor, but it's not going to happen pulling a load.

Don't worry about it. With the new mpg ratings you won't need to be able to carry 80,000 lbs. so you can put 40,000 lbs on each of your new light semis. You save 33 1/3% on your mileage, but you will need ot use more fuel overall due to more runs. This will make economic sense to you when you become a convert and two runs will do wonders for the environment.
 
There are more variables involved in move 80,000 pounds than there are in moving 2,000 pounds.

I can get 8 mpg out of a bobtail tractor, but it's not going to happen pulling a load.

There are even more variables in getting to the moon. The amount of variables are not the deciding factor in whether or not something can be done.
 
I hope you realize that after market parts will improve your gas mileage and are made by people that actually have interest in doing it. Car companies have to deal with two different demands from the consumers and they can't do both unlike the other group of people that can do both as its more of individual service. The two demands that car companies have to deal with is first high horsepower and second is high gas mileage. You can't have both so the car companies pick the one that consumers demand more often, which is horsepower.

Have you read nothing I've wrote? GM indeed did both with the Corvette. They improved mileage and power.

If you want the later you should use the after market parts to improve your gas mileage. Trying say the market is not good enough because your demands that are actually in the minority should be listened to over the majority is not how a market works and its not how the country even should function. And like I said, with the existence of after market parts the argument has no feet as the demand is actually being dealt with. All that people have to do now is actually use the avenue to get their demand.

The majority wants crappy gas mileage? Are you even reading what you write?
 
There are even more variables in getting to the moon. The amount of variables are not the deciding factor in whether or not something can be done.

I think the biggest question is: How much will it cost to do it? NASA didn't have to worry about overhead, a whole lot.
 
I think the biggest question is: How much will it cost to do it? NASA didn't have to worry about overhead, a whole lot.

Again, thinking small. These are improvements we should have been making over the last 60 years but didn't. Steady small improvements make a big difference over time.

Yes, making big jumps all at once can be expensive. As we've seen, complacency has been even more expensive. I'm not one to believe the government is very good at much of anything but something needs done to kick start things.

There is absolutely no reason this country can not develop a more efficient long haul truck. None.
 
More over-regulation. Someone needs to make a video and call it, "Gubmint Gone Wild".

Super. CAFE standards for big rigs. « Hot Air

The regulations call for reductions on fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emissions by 2018 of 9 to 23 percent, depending on the type of vehicle. Trucks and other heavy vehicles make up only 4 percent of the domestic vehicle fleet, but given the distance they travel, the time they spend idling and their low fuel efficiency, they end up consuming about 20% of all vehicle fuel, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists.

Experts say that a 20 percent reduction in heavy vehicle emissions would boost fuel efficiency to an average of 8 miles per gallon from 6 miles now.

How will the regulations be applied to this vehicle:

cougar_h_1.jpg


Powerplant

The Cougar-H is equipped with a diesel fueled Caterpillar C-7 I-6 turbocharged engine producing 330 horsepower and 860 ft/lb of torque and is equipped with a 6-speed Allison automatic transmission.

Performance

The Cougar-H has a curb (empty) weight of 32,000 pounds, a maximum weight of 38,000 pounds, and a load weight of 6,000 pounds. The Cougar has a top speed of approximately 65 mph, and a cruising range of approximately 420 miles.
 
Have you read nothing I've wrote? GM indeed did both with the Corvette. They improved mileage and power.

How much was the increase? I would wager low since we are mostly talking about efficiency. Way before the actual physics issues come into play.

The majority wants crappy gas mileage? Are you even reading what you write?

The majority favor both, but when asked which is more important they pick power.
 
How much was the increase? I would wager low since we are mostly talking about efficiency. Way before the actual physics issues come into play.

2010 430 horse and 26 mpg highway. 1980 Corvette 180 HP and 20 mpg highway.

The majority favor both, but when asked which is more important they pick power.

Not for those who want mileage. People don't buy a Prius for it's power.
 
Again, thinking small. These are improvements we should have been making over the last 60 years but didn't. Steady small improvements make a big difference over time.

Yes, making big jumps all at once can be expensive. As we've seen, complacency has been even more expensive. I'm not one to believe the government is very good at much of anything but something needs done to kick start things.

There is absolutely no reason this country can not develop a more efficient long haul truck. None.

Except for practicality, perhaps.
 
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