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Thread: CAFE standards for big rigs.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    That effort should come from the purchasers of the big rigs. They are the ones who should put pressure on manufacturers to produce more fuel-efficient rigs.
    They should but since there have been no gains in 60 years is why I have concerns.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Then what is the difference between this and any other regulation?
    This is the government meddling in free enterprise in an area where no government is needed and forces unrealistic demands on manufacturers. Purchasers of the products should be the ones demanding better products so that their bottom lines are improved. That takes mutual agreement between the seller and the purchaser as to what they want and at what price. This tyranny will drive up costs for the manufacturers and the purchasers of the rigs and may not get what the seller or purchaser want.

    It is no wonder why manufacturers have left the country. With oppressive measures, they can do better elsewhere. You guys just keep cutting off your noses to spite your faces. More oppressive regulations and taxes equals less manufacturing. Less manufacturing equals less employment. Less employment equals lower wages. Why do you want this? End the tyranny.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    They should but since there have been no gains in 60 years is why I have concerns.
    Maybe the purchasers have been satisfied. Should we use coercion to drive up the cost of manufacturing and prices for the purchasers?

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    This is the government meddling in free enterprise in an area where no government is needed and forces unrealistic demands on manufacturers. Purchasers of the products should be the ones demanding better products so that their bottom lines are improved. That takes mutual agreement between the seller and the purchaser as to what they want and at what price. This tyranny will drive up costs for the manufacturers and the purchasers of the rigs and may not get what the seller or purchaser want.

    It is no wonder why manufacturers have left the country. With oppressive measures, they can do better elsewhere. You guys just keep cutting off your noses to spite your faces. More oppressive regulations and taxes equals less manufacturing. Less manufacturing equals less employment. Less employment equals lower wages. Why do you want this? End the tyranny.
    1. You have yet to prove that it is unrealistic. Also, unrealistic is not the same is not optimally cost effective.
    2. The government has a legitimate interest in reducing dependance on a substance helps to fund elements that destabilize world peace and US interests.
    3. You will need to show that no government is needed and why this is so.
    4. So trucking manufacturers will leave the country, because they have to build trucks with a higher mpg? Did you think this through? (they still have a market here and will still have to build trucks to us specifications to reach that market)

    I want this, because economics is a competing interest among other national interests, such as the environment in which economics relies on to be healthy and security concerns.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Maybe the purchasers have been satisfied. Should we use coercion to drive up the cost of manufacturing and prices for the purchasers?
    I believe that over the last 60 years if there had been gains made the costs would be negligable today.

    I do not know what the solutions are exactly but I do have a problem with the relatively small gains we've made over the last 60 years. I was looking at new trucks this past week. Most of them are listed at 12-15 mpg in city driving. Again, I could get that out of a 60 year old truck.

    I would have liked to have bought a small diesel in a 1500 series Chevy truck. It would get at least in the high 20's. We even have this technology today but one can not buy that truck.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I believe that over the last 60 years if there had been gains made the costs would be negligable today.

    I do not know what the solutions are exactly but I do have a problem with the relatively small gains we've made over the last 60 years. I was looking at new trucks this past week. Most of them are listed at 12-15 mpg in city driving. Again, I could get that out of a 60 year old truck.

    I would have liked to have bought a small diesel in a 1500 series Chevy truck. It would get at least in the high 20's. We even have this technology today but one can not buy that truck.
    Whenever I write up a capitol project for work, the standard for acceptance is based on the rate in which the initial investment will pay off and start to generate a cost savings. Generally, my boss is looking for 1 year or less. This is pretty common for many industries.

    Given the life span of trucks, it would be easy to get stuck into increased costs, even though the long term payoff would be great.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    1. You have yet to prove that it is unrealistic. Also, unrealistic is not the same is not optimally cost effective.
    I don't have to prove that it is unrealistic. Common sense tells me that a 33 1/3 percent increase is unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    2. The government has a legitimate interest in reducing dependance on a substance helps to fund elements that destabilize world peace and US interests.
    The government does have a legitimate interest in reducing our dependence on foreign oil. It also has a legitimate interest in preserving and promoting freedom. Instead of being tryrannical on two fronts (minimize drilling and refining and C.A.F.E. standards), I believe that liberty is a better answer. First, let the purchasers of vehicles work with the manufacturers on the best solution with regards to mileage. Second, allow for a large expansion of drilling and refining of petroleum products. Both are good for the economy. Both are good for companies. Both are good for freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    3. You will need to show that no government is needed and why this is so.
    I understand that you think government is the answer to all things. I simply believe in freedom and buyers and sellers can work out the details without meddlesome government. I need to show you nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    4. So trucking manufacturers will leave the country, because they have to build trucks with a higher mpg? Did you think this through? (they still have a market here and will still have to build trucks to us specifications to reach that market)
    That's not what I said, but I understand why you thought I did. I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I understand that even foreign manufacturers have to comply with U.S. regulations. My thought was that it is this type of government meddling with over-regulation that is causing many companies to flee the States for better places to do business.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I want this, because economics is a competing interest among other national interests, such as the environment in which economics relies on to be healthy and security concerns.
    I understand that this is the announced cause celebre behind the tyranny, but even more basic than that is that the Statists want to kill free enterprise and force everyone into their tyrannical point of view. If they cannot get it through selling their ideas, they force everyone by dictate.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    I believe that over the last 60 years if there had been gains made the costs would be negligable today.

    I do not know what the solutions are exactly but I do have a problem with the relatively small gains we've made over the last 60 years. I was looking at new trucks this past week. Most of them are listed at 12-15 mpg in city driving. Again, I could get that out of a 60 year old truck.

    I would have liked to have bought a small diesel in a 1500 series Chevy truck. It would get at least in the high 20's. We even have this technology today but one can not buy that truck.
    Do you believe that the Federal Government should dictate to manufacturers what they should build and the specs it should produce?

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I don't have to prove that it is unrealistic. Common sense tells me that a 33 1/3 percent increase is unrealistic.
    Ok, so you cannot prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    The government does have a legitimate interest in reducing our dependence on foreign oil. It also has a legitimate interest in preserving and promoting freedom. Instead of being tryrannical on two fronts (minimize drilling and refining and C.A.F.E. standards), I believe that liberty is a better answer. First, let the purchasers of vehicles work with the manufacturers on the best solution with regards to mileage. Second, allow for a large expansion of drilling and refining of petroleum products. Both are good for the economy. Both are good for companies. Both are good for freedom.
    Mileage has not improved for decades, which means the best solution is not being worked out. Second ANWR and the gulf account for less than 1% (I think, correct me if I am wrong) than the global market and will not affect pricing much one way or the other. Also, this approach fails to address any environmental concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I understand that you think government is the answer to all things. I simply believe in freedom and buyers and sellers can work out the details without meddlesome government. I need to show you nothing.
    This would be a straw man, I am a big fan of capitalism as a driver of societal progress. It accomplishes things that government never could.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    That's not what I said, but I understand why you thought I did. I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I understand that even foreign manufacturers have to comply with U.S. regulations. My thought was that it is this type of government meddling with over-regulation that is causing many companies to flee the States for better places to do business.
    Fair enough. I misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I understand that this is the announced cause celebre behind the tyranny, but even more basic than that is that the Statists want to kill free enterprise and force everyone into their tyrannical point of view. If they cannot get it through selling their ideas, they force everyone by dictate.
    This would be another straw man. I have no desire to dominate people and wish, instead to promote and enrich them, we just disagree on how best this is accomplished.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 08-13-11 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I have no desire to dominate people and wish, instead to promote and enrich them, we just disagree on how best this is accomplished.
    You desire it. You want C.A.F.E standards. You want energy standards for lightbulbs. You want big government to control what we can and cannot purchase. You may say that you want free enterprise, but your solutions are the opposite.

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