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Thread: CAFE standards for big rigs.

  1. #281
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    yeah.. drivers and owner-operators...
    the CEO of fed-ex knows exactly nothing about trucks... he's a numbers and ideas kinda guy, as CEO's tend to be.... real truckers know everything about their truck and what it takes to operate it.
    What is pertinent is that they know how to increase mileage and reduce air pollution while increasing fuel savings. The drivers and owner-operators do not.

    i will guarantee you that whatever technology the put on these trucks to meet the CAFE standards will need maintenance and/or repair during this 18-24 month period.... how much that costs will depend upon the specific application... that is a very hard cost to assign when we try to figure out total cost, as it is dependent on a multitude of variables
    And you speculate that engineers did not consider maintenance/repair?


    as for the lifespan of a tractor.. well, the chassis can last 40 years or so...a well maintained powerplant will last out to about a million miles or so ( it will cost about 5 times the value of the motor , in maintenance and repairs, to get it to last that long).. a well maintained power train ( transmission, brownie box, driveline, rear ends) will last out to about 300-500k miles before a rebuild is in the cards... clutches can go anywhere between 6 months and 10 years( depending on driving habits of the operator).. tires can last out to 200k, but that is pretty rare anymore... most truck will go through 1.5 sets of tires per year (about $7-$8k per year).

    by my calculations ( very simple ones, admittedly) i'm seeing about $19,000 in fuel savings per year under these new standards ( average miles driven / mpg X average diesel prices)... so it seem to me the manufacturers are advertising that the cost of the new standards will be between $29,000 and $38,000 bucks ( using their stated 18 -24 month recoup window).... if my figures are in the ballpark, that's a mighty hefty price to pay , considering new trucks run $80-$100 grand on average.

    the big firms ( Con-way, Yellow/Roadway, Fed Ex, Coca-cola) will pay substantially less for their trucks ( they buy or lease in volume), so their markup will be substantially less than the average owner operator sees... they might even be privy to subsidies and incentives to update their fleets ( which is usually the case when new standards roll down the pike)
    the big boys won't be hurt too bad by this, but the little guys, once again, will foot the bill in it's entirety.
    Then the truck owner, including the independents, comes out the big winner with ten's of thousands of dollars in fuel savings over the life of the truck! Hell of a deal!!! I can see why trucking companies are happy with this new standard.


    BTW, You forgot to answer my question. How would you go about setting an industry pollution standard, as opposed to the way this one was done?
    Last edited by Catawba; 08-31-11 at 02:35 AM.
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  2. #282
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    I keep hearing how gov is working WITH engine manufacturers to make these new great engines, so far nobody can tell me govs role in this marvelous new engine. Tax incentives? Cash handouts? R&D by unemployed NASA scientist? WHAT? So far all I hear govs role in this is DO IT OR ELSE

  3. #283
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    So far all I hear govs role in this is DO IT OR ELSE
    Yes, after consulting with manufacturers, scientists, engineers, shippers, etc. in order to understand what should and can be done, and how soon it can happen. Then in order to get it to happen much sooner, it is essentially in your words “DO IT OR ELSE”; much like a coach. Thanks for your understanding.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    yeah.. drivers and owner-operators...
    .... real truckers know everything about their truck and what it takes to operate it.

    gimme an hour with a truck driver and about 300 bucks worth of already existing products/technologies/knowledge, and i'll give you your additional 2 mpg average on his truck... but i'm not a manufacturer looking to make additional billions of dollars, so i don't really count for much in the grand scheme of things.
    Thrilla, please reconcile these two statements for me. thx

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Yes, after consulting with manufacturers, scientists, engineers, shippers, etc. in order to understand what should and can be done, and how soon it can happen. Then in order to get it to happen much sooner, it is essentially in your words “DO IT OR ELSE”; much like a coach. Thanks for your understanding.
    That’s pretty much what I thought, the myth that gov is working in cooperation with engine designers is just that, a myth. As I have stated before fuel is number one cost to a trucking comp and any engine designer that can get fuel consumption down will be an instant winner. Catch is the trucking comps also want a reliable engine that will save more in fuel cost than it loses in maintenance cost. Obama stepping in and saying make this engine by a certain date guarantees an engine that isn’t ready and will cost trucking comps which will in turn cost you and me, everything you touch came to you on a truck. Now if on a personal level you are OK with that fine but it damn sure isn’t going to help this fragile economy recover.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Thatís pretty much what I thought, the myth that gov is working in cooperation with engine designers is just that, a myth. As I have stated before fuel is number one cost to a trucking comp and any engine designer that can get fuel consumption down will be an instant winner. Catch is the trucking comps also want a reliable engine that will save more in fuel cost than it loses in maintenance cost. Obama stepping in and saying make this engine by a certain date guarantees an engine that isnít ready and will cost trucking comps which will in turn cost you and me, everything you touch came to you on a truck. Now if on a personal level you are OK with that fine but it damn sure isnít going to help this fragile economy recover.
    Just so you know that many Presidents were involved, including Bush. Also itís interesting that the engine manufactures say they will be ready, but maybe they are lying or something, but I donít think so. I think it will actually help the economy, there are many historical examples.
    Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In late 2007, CAFE standards received their first overhaul in more than 30 years. On December 19, President Bush signed into law the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, which requires in part that automakers boost fleetwide gas mileage to 35 mpg by the year 2020. This requirement applies to all passenger automobiles, including "light trucks." Politicians had faced increased public pressure to raise CAFE standards; a July 2007 poll conducted in 30 congressional districts in seven states revealed 84-90% in favor of legislating mandatory increases.
    On January 26, 2009, President Barack Obama directed the Department of Transportation to review relevant legal, technological, and scientific considerations associated with establishing more stringent fuel economy standards, and to finalize the 2011 model year standard by the end of March. This single-model year standard was issued March 27, 2009 and is about one mpg lower than the fuel economy standards previously recommended under the Bush Administration.
    On May 19, 2009 President Barack Obama proposed a new national fuel economy program which adopts uniform federal standards to regulate both fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions while preserving the legal authorities of DOT, EPA and California. The program covers model year 2012 to model year 2016 and ultimately requires an average fuel economy standard of 35.5 miles per US gallon (6.63 L/100 km; 42.6 mpg-imp) in 2016 (of 39 miles per gallon for cars and 30 mpg for trucks), a jump from the current average for all vehicles of 25 miles per gallon.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What is pertinent is that they know how to increase mileage and reduce air pollution while increasing fuel savings. The drivers and owner-operators do not.



    And you speculate that engineers did not consider maintenance/repair?




    Then the truck owner, including the independents, comes out the big winner with ten's of thousands of dollars in fuel savings over the life of the truck! Hell of a deal!!! I can see why trucking companies are happy with this new standard.


    BTW, You forgot to answer my question. How would you go about setting an industry pollution standard, as opposed to the way this one was done?
    i didn't forget to answer the question... I just realized it's a waste of time continuing the conversation and decided not to.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    i didn't forget to answer the question... I just realized it's a waste of time continuing the conversation and decided not to.
    I wish you had come to that realization before you wasted our time!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Just so you know that many Presidents were involved, including Bush. Also it’s interesting that the engine manufactures say they will be ready, but maybe they are lying or something, but I don’t think so. I think it will actually help the economy, there are many historical examples.
    Corporate Average Fuel Economy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In late 2007, CAFE standards received their first overhaul in more than 30 years. On December 19, President Bush signed into law the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, which requires in part that automakers boost fleetwide gas mileage to 35 mpg by the year 2020. This requirement applies to all passenger automobiles, including "light trucks." Politicians had faced increased public pressure to raise CAFE standards; a July 2007 poll conducted in 30 congressional districts in seven states revealed 84-90% in favor of legislating mandatory increases.
    On January 26, 2009, President Barack Obama directed the Department of Transportation to review relevant legal, technological, and scientific considerations associated with establishing more stringent fuel economy standards, and to finalize the 2011 model year standard by the end of March. This single-model year standard was issued March 27, 2009 and is about one mpg lower than the fuel economy standards previously recommended under the Bush Administration.
    On May 19, 2009 President Barack Obama proposed a new national fuel economy program which adopts uniform federal standards to regulate both fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions while preserving the legal authorities of DOT, EPA and California. The program covers model year 2012 to model year 2016 and ultimately requires an average fuel economy standard of 35.5 miles per US gallon (6.63 L/100 km; 42.6 mpg-imp) in 2016 (of 39 miles per gallon for cars and 30 mpg for trucks), a jump from the current average for all vehicles of 25 miles per gallon.
    Just one of the many reasons Bush dissapointed me.

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