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Thread: CAFE standards for big rigs.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The train system in the US declined when the trucking lobby got politicians to cut off funding for the train system and give it to the trucking industry.
    Do you have a source for this claim?

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Do you have a source for this claim?
    "Some freight really is more suitable for trucks, of course. In most cases you need a truck to deliver freight to the commercial or industrial door. And trucks travel more direct routes than train can. But in terms of shipping, most economic advantages trucks have over trains are due to perverse tax and subsidy structures whereby freight trains actually have to help pay for trucks.

    Trucking pays fuel taxes, but those don't cover the cost of truck wear and tear on roads compared to automobiles. Highways and bridges are built to truck standards, requiring much more expense than if they carried cars alone. And highways are not funded entirely by gas taxes -- income and property taxes also pay for maintenance and improvements. Rail freight companies pay fuel, property, and income taxes, but they receive almost no infrastructural support in return.

    Railroads received an initial subsidy in the form of huge land grants of stolen American Indian land in the 19th century. Since then, rail freight has received almost no government subsidies.

    We need to reverse that -- make trucks pay their fair share, and put tens of billions per year into rail infrastructure. We need to switch 85% or more of heavy truck freight miles to rail, sending freight only the final 50 miles via truck."


    We need to prepare for peal oil as the military warned us next year, as they are already doing themselves. Afterall, "Trains carry freight with nearly ten times the energy efficiency of trucks per ton/mile"

    Rail freight is more efficient than truck freight | Grist
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Some freight really is more suitable for trucks, of course. In most cases you need a truck to deliver freight to the commercial or industrial door. And trucks travel more direct routes than train can. But in terms of shipping, most economic advantages trucks have over trains are due to perverse tax and subsidy structures whereby freight trains actually have to help pay for trucks.

    Trucking pays fuel taxes, but those don't cover the cost of truck wear and tear on roads compared to automobiles. Highways and bridges are built to truck standards, requiring much more expense than if they carried cars alone. And highways are not funded entirely by gas taxes -- income and property taxes also pay for maintenance and improvements. Rail freight companies pay fuel, property, and income taxes, but they receive almost no infrastructural support in return.

    Railroads received an initial subsidy in the form of huge land grants of stolen American Indian land in the 19th century. Since then, rail freight has received almost no government subsidies.

    We need to reverse that -- make trucks pay their fair share, and put tens of billions per year into rail infrastructure. We need to switch 85% or more of heavy truck freight miles to rail, sending freight only the final 50 miles via truck."


    We need to prepare for peal oil as the military warned us next year, as they are already doing themselves. Afterall, "Trains carry freight with nearly ten times the energy efficiency of trucks per ton/mile"

    Rail freight is more efficient than truck freight | Grist
    Perhaps, I should have asked for an unbiased source. Most that I have looked at says that automobiles began the slide as they hurt passenger traffice and then after WWII, passenger traffic dipped significantly and then the Eisenhower Administration built the Interstate System and trucks became more advantageous.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Some freight really is more suitable for trucks, of course. In most cases you need a truck to deliver freight to the commercial or industrial door. And trucks travel more direct routes than train can. But in terms of shipping, most economic advantages trucks have over trains are due to perverse tax and subsidy structures whereby freight trains actually have to help pay for trucks.

    Trucking pays fuel taxes, but those don't cover the cost of truck wear and tear on roads compared to automobiles. Highways and bridges are built to truck standards, requiring much more expense than if they carried cars alone. And highways are not funded entirely by gas taxes -- income and property taxes also pay for maintenance and improvements. Rail freight companies pay fuel, property, and income taxes, but they receive almost no infrastructural support in return.

    Railroads received an initial subsidy in the form of huge land grants of stolen American Indian land in the 19th century. Since then, rail freight has received almost no government subsidies.

    We need to reverse that -- make trucks pay their fair share, and put tens of billions per year into rail infrastructure. We need to switch 85% or more of heavy truck freight miles to rail, sending freight only the final 50 miles via truck."


    We need to prepare for peal oil as the military warned us next year, as they are already doing themselves. Afterall, "Trains carry freight with nearly ten times the energy efficiency of trucks per ton/mile"

    Rail freight is more efficient than truck freight | Grist
    Incidentally, I do think we need to end all subsidies and infrastructure aid to both parties.

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    Perhaps, I should have asked for an unbiased source. Most that I have looked at says that automobiles began the slide as they hurt passenger traffice and then after WWII, passenger traffic dipped significantly and then the Eisenhower Administration built the Interstate System and trucks became more advantageous.
    Only because trains have to pay for their own infrastructure cost. If the trucking industry had to pay their full share of infrastructure costs that supports them, and given that trains are 10 times more energy efficient, they could not compete with long distance freight transport by rail.
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Ridiculous straw man? You libs always tell us drilling new wells to increase supply will not effect gas prices. As for trains replacing trucks theres a reason they can't, it's called JIT, just in time. It is how company's keep cost down by not having to warehouse and handle goods. They want stuff coming off the truck and going on the shelves or bolted on to whatever they are producing. You libs have absolutely no comprehension of what it takes to run a business. you are all theory, all pie in sky wouldn't it be swell if BS.
    No, they say it wont have significant impact on price. Because the amount of supply we can actually increase is insignificant compared to our demand.

    I'm not sure why people are discussing trucks vs. trains... neither are going to disappear.
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Re Rail decline Vs automobiles:

    "...As early as the 1930s, automobile travel had begun to cut into the rail passenger market, somewhat reducing economies of scale, but it was the development of the Interstate Highway System and of commercial aviation in the 1950s and 1960s, as well as increasingly restrictive regulation, that dealt the most damaging blows to rail transportation, both passenger and freight (some also cite the Great American Streetcar Scandal). There was little point in operating passenger trains to advertise freight service when those who made decisions about freight shipping traveled by car and by air, and when the railroads' chief competitors for that market were interstate trucking companies. Soon, the only things keeping most passenger trains running were legal obligations... "

    Rail transport in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "...The Great American streetcar scandal (also known as the General Motors streetcar conspiracy and the National City Lines conspiracy) refers to allegations and convictions in relation to a program by General Motors (GM) and a number of other companies to purchase and dismantle streetcars (trams/trolleys) and electric trains in many cities across the United States and replace them with bus services; a program which has been blamed by some for the virtual elimination of effective public transport in nearly all American cities by the 1970s. The lack of hard information about what occurred has led to intrigue, uncertainty, inaccuracy and conspiracy theories. The story has been explored many times in print, film and other media, notably in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Taken for a Ride and The End of Suburbia.... "

    Great American streetcar scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    GM, Firestone and Chevron (then Standard Oil) were all convicted.
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    When did we have "reasonable" sandards? Do you believe that 54 or 55 mpg by 2025 is a "reasonable" standard? I do not. I don't want to drive an itty bitty Smart Car down the freeway and get hit by a semi. My chances of survival are about nil. Secondly, making semis have similar goals will mean that trucks will need to be the size of a former full-sized Lincoln, but it will take 50 semis to carry the load of 1 semi of today. I doubt they can get a Lincoln Town Car to get 200 mpg.

    If your concern was national security rather than destroying private enterprise, may I suggest that we allow full development of all types of energy in the U.S. rather than attempting to make the error of picking winners and losers.
    How will the big liberal gubermint maintain our safety if we have to drive little bitty paper cars that get 55 mpg?
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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    How will the big liberal gubermint maintain our safety if we have to drive little bitty paper cars that get 55 mpg?

    Biggggggg bumpers!

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    Re: CAFE standards for big rigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The problem is, that reason only works for idiots.
    That should make Liberals feel right at home for blindly supporting Obama's failures.

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