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CHINA: "America Needs To Accept The Painful Fact That The Good Old Days Are Over"

It is shows a great deal of disrespect to lump the economic policies of China and Japan in the same context....

I'm with Lord T on this one. Japan had and still has a restrictive market. Japan for years used agricultural reasons to keep out competition. Furthermore, Japan's Iron Triangle basically acted as a protection method by funneling government contracts to select Japanese businesses over foreign competition. I don't know if it was as bad as France's but Japan does have protected domestic markets. As for South Korea, Park's regime kept out foreign competition while funneling resources to specific export industries in a planned economy.

The main difference is IP rights, but I think Lord T missed something important. While China basically fails to enforce IP rights, it also mandates that foreign investors hand over their IP through forced technology transfers as part of the deal to invest into China. It's not just lack of protection, it's essentially pillaging IP.
 
I've been saying this for some time.
We aren't the only economic power house in the world anymore.
We have to realize that the world market has other competitors.

I'm quite sick of people pining for the good ole days in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
good point and remember that American wasn't a world power house prior to the turn of the last century and into the middle, yet we did just fine.
 
I'm with Lord T on this one. Japan had and still has a restrictive market. Japan for years used agricultural reasons to keep out competition. Furthermore, Japan's Iron Triangle basically acted as a protection method by funneling government contracts to select Japanese businesses over foreign competition. I don't know if it was as bad as France's but Japan does have protected domestic markets. As for South Korea, Park's regime kept out foreign competition while funneling resources to specific export industries in a planned economy.

The main difference is IP rights, but I think Lord T missed something important. While China basically fails to enforce IP rights, it also mandates that foreign investors hand over their IP through forced technology transfers as part of the deal to invest into China. It's not just lack of protection, it's essentially pillaging IP.

I was going to comment about the joint ventures that China tends to require for most manufacturing that is going to be for its domestic markets.

Even with the IP transferrs foreign automakers have made larger inroads into the Chinese market then they have into the SK or Japanese ones ( possible exception with SK with GM owning a significant chunk of Daewoo
 
good point and remember that American wasn't a world power house prior to the turn of the last century and into the middle, yet we did just fine.

The main issue is going to be the decline in the US standard of living for much of the population. Competition and trade does not always lift all boats. The decline in Michigan was offset by the rise in Japan and the US southeast. Mich declined with the US southeast gained. China and India will see gains, while we will see loses.
 
The main issue is going to be the decline in the US standard of living for much of the population. Competition and trade does not always lift all boats. The decline in Michigan was offset by the rise in Japan and the US southeast. Mich declined with the US southeast gained. China and India will see gains, while we will see loses.
Your probably right and the decline that we will see here will be a reset button..I hope anyway.
 
I was going to comment about the joint ventures that China tends to require for most manufacturing that is going to be for its domestic markets.

Even with the IP transferrs foreign automakers have made larger inroads into the Chinese market then they have into the SK or Japanese ones ( possible exception with SK with GM owning a significant chunk of Daewoo

But when it comes to software, electronics manufacturing, even textiles, China is basically raping foreign companies for their secrets. The only reason IMO that China hasn't gotten sued in WTO over blantantly illegal behavior, is because its market is so potentially large.

As for the auto industry, IMO, China's is relatively new and they fully realize that unless they open up they won't get help they need. On top of that, there's somewhat of a culture bias. Japanese and Sk prefer their own homeground brands where it's a status symbol in China to drive a foreign car. Even if it's a GM. I really don't get that, but it seemed to be the case when I was in China a couple times. Middle class drove Chery's where the upper drove GMs, Fords, Hyundai, Toyota, and European. I didn't see many Hondas. Not sure why.
 
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Was it not the actions of the "business community" that put us in this place to begin with? Oh wait, government wrote, issued, insured, and exported the toxic mortgages that infected the global financial system.:roll:

To be fair, the Maes putting the government seal of approval on mortgages and then giving state mortgage boards the "Don't bother me son, I'm busy!" treatment when they complained did not exactly help things...
 
The U.S. and other Western states have allowed China to get away with its neo-mercantilist policies for two decades... the results are coming home to roost. Time to take China to task for its policies -- currency manipulation and the use of non-tariff barriers to make imports of many goods exceedingly difficult with the express purpose of depressing them -- though it may already be too late...

Perhaps you are overlooking the reason China has two currencies. That would be to prevent manipulation by the crooked Reserve Banking System and that is controlled by Western corporatists. In this case the Western Corporatists were outsmarted and perhaps even out manipulated at their own game.
 
The good times will return when Obama is causing trouble someplace else and the business community is left alone to fix the economy.

Corporations care about fixing the whole economy? Really? Last time I checked all they gave 2 ****s about is if they met earnings expectations. The business community is meant to increase business. And at almost any cost. Look at the mortgage companies. Do you REALLY think a VP of sales or a CFO, if given the choice to either raise their earnings and then their stock price oooooor NOT screw over 7000 customers that would be stuck with a loan with APR that was falsely rasied, would actually choose NOT to get their earnings raised?

Companies are money generators. Not economic fixers. If there is anyone I wouldnt pick to help the economy its unions and corporations. Both self serving.
 
You...understand this isn't a real video from real communists, right?

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Perhaps you are overlooking the reason China has two currencies. That would be to prevent manipulation by the crooked Reserve Banking System and that is controlled by Western corporatists. In this case the Western Corporatists were outsmarted and perhaps even out manipulated at their own game.

Two currencies? The renminbi is the currency of China. What second currency are you referring to?
 
Two currencies? The renminbi is the currency of China. What second currency are you referring to?

The yuan. The currency used inside China. The reserve banks cannot cause a currency crash like the Malaysian currency crash and reap the windfall buyouts of failing businesses.
 
from Wikipedia
"International TradeBefore 2009, the Chinese renminbi had little to no exposure in the international markets due to strict government controls by the central Chinese government that prohibited almost all forms of yuan holdings or transactions. Transactions between Chinese companies and a foreign entity would have to be denominated in US dollars. With Chinese companies unable to hold US dollars and foreign companies unable to hold Chinese yuan, all transactions would go through the People's Bank of China. Once the sum was paid by the foreign party in dollars, the central bank would pass the settlement in renminbi to the Chinese company. In June 2009 the Chinese officials announced a pilot scheme where business and trade transactions were allowed between limited businesses in Guangdong and Shanghai municipalities and only counterparties in Hong Kong, Macau, and select ASEAN nations. Proving a success,[citation needed] the program was further extended to 20 Chinese provinces and counterparties internationally in July 2010.

In steps intended to establish the renminbi as an international reserve currency, China has agreements with Russia, Vietnam, and Thailand allowing trade with those countries to be settled directly in renminbi instead of requiring conversion to US dollars.[14]"
 
The yuan. The currency used inside China. The reserve banks cannot cause a currency crash like the Malaysian currency crash and reap the windfall buyouts of failing businesses.

Renminbi and the Yuan are the same currency.

Ludahai is quite correct

The yuan is the common western name for the Renminbi, but they are one in the same
 
There is however the Hong Kong Dollar which primarily is used in of course Hong Kong
 
Ludahai is quite correct

The yuan is the common western name for the Renminbi, but they are one in the same

A little more detail -- as I was in a bit of a rush first thing this morning before my morning swim...

Renminbi 人民幣 (literally: people's money) is the formal name of the currency in China. Yuan 元 is commonly used in spoken and written Chinese just as Kuai 塊 is used in spoken Chinese. In Taiwan, we use the New Taiwan Dollar (Xin Taibi) 新台幣, but also use the terms yuan and kuai just as interchangebly as is done in China. The Chinese territories of Hong Kong uses the Hong Kong dollar 港幣 (Gangbi) and Macau uses the Macanese Pataca 澳門幣 (Aomenbi). Not sure what spoken terms as I am not familiar with Cantonese or Macanese.
 
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A little more detail -- as I was in a bit of a rush first thing this morning before my morning swim...

Renminbi 人民幣 (literally: people's money) is the formal name of the currency in China. Yuan 元 is commonly used in spoken and written Chinese just as Kuai 塊 is used in spoken Chinese. In Taiwan, we use the New Taiwan Dollar (Xin Taibi) 新台幣, but also use the terms yuan and kuai just as interchangebly as is done in China. The Chinese territories of Hong Kong uses the Hong Kong dollar 港幣 (Gangbi) and Macau uses the Macanese Pataca 澳門幣 (Aomenbi). Not sure what spoken terms as I am not familiar with Cantonese or Macanese.

I do recall seeing the Yuan 元 being used for the pricing of most goods in China
 
I do recall seeing the Yuan 元 being used for the pricing of most goods in China

True... Here, you sometimes see prices written with the character for 元, but usually just with the number indicating the price. It is often used in spoken Mandarin (or Taiwanese) in giving the total price of what you are buying in supermarkets, open-air markets, and other locations...

Dave Fagan has no idea what he is talking about.
 
True... Here, you sometimes see prices written with the character for 元, but usually just with the number indicating the price. It is often used in spoken Mandarin (or Taiwanese) in giving the total price of what you are buying in supermarkets, open-air markets, and other locations...

Dave Fagan has no idea what he is talking about.

You are correct. I was wrong on this. I meant to address the issue that China came into world trade in a controlled fashion to prevent foreign elements from being able to manipulate Chinese finances. In this case you have to relate to the sheer volume of USDollars in the world and the ability of a Mega-economy to manipulate a mini-economy by huge currency moves. China controls the float of its currency, not outside manipulators and that has kept outside interests, think foreign banks, from getting control of its economy.
 
The good ol days? When people were responsible for their kids? When our society was not politically correct and we didnt BS each other with lies? When we didnt tolerate Illegal aliens and didnt give them tax money? When we still had a manufacturing base? When companies actually cared more for their employees than their god damn stock price? I think the Chinese are mainly correct. I also feel the American people are very similar to Rome in its last years. Greedy, fat, lazy, without ethics and morals. This ship is sinking. The men and women that died for this country in WWII are crying somewhere.

Of course had a lefty said anything like this, they'd be branded Anti American. Yawn.

Screw the Chinese.
 
You are correct. I was wrong on this. I meant to address the issue that China came into world trade in a controlled fashion to prevent foreign elements from being able to manipulate Chinese finances. In this case you have to relate to the sheer volume of USDollars in the world and the ability of a Mega-economy to manipulate a mini-economy by huge currency moves. China controls the float of its currency, not outside manipulators and that has kept outside interests, think foreign banks, from getting control of its economy.

But the controlled nature of the Chinese currency then allowed it to become seriously undervalued, making their exports cheaper on the world market -- which could be considered an illegal state subsidy under WTO rules...
 
A bit hypocritical- or rather - Gloating.

China, through Unfair trade policies such as pegging their currency artificially low, wholesale Theft of Intellectual property, and industrial espionage on a level never seen, indeed has lots to Mock us about.

We are a Stupid and corrupt country who elect leaders - the same.
THAT is why they have won and are continuing to win their WAR on America.
And make no mistake- it is a war.
 
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Agreed. They are operating from the USA playbook of the last 50 years. What's good for the goose, etc. eh?
 
A bit hypocritical- or rather - Gloating.

China, through Unfair trade policies such as pegging their currency artificially low, wholesale Theft of Intellectual property, and industrial espionage on a level never seen, indeed has lots to Mock us about.

We are a Stupid and corrupt country who elect leaders - the same.
THAT is why they have won and are continuing to win their WAR on America.
And make no mistake- it is a war.

Plenty of countries have pegged currencies in the last 50 years. From Taiwan, South Korea and Argentina to name a few. Pegging your currency at a low level does not effect long term economic advantages. It can provide a short term boost if one devalues the currency, but it will not effect long term economics (2 years +) China by having a low currency sees higher rates of inflation, in the cost of goods, wages and services. As such the increase in wages that are paid within China, offset the low currency.
 
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