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Thread: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

  1. #11
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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I understand how people like to play politics with the terms "essential" and nonessential", but within the govt there are categories of employees under these classes. Uniformed military are usually essential, plus civilian security, civilians required to maintain minimal operations (IT, facilities, certain supervisory personnel). These are usually consider mission essential personnel. It's a silly game that people like to play. The problem is that you don't understand what those terms really mean.
    If they can function without everyone else - then why not go that route?
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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You could have saved yourself the longwinded diatribe, and simply said "I hate the GOP."
    And you could have saved yourself a response by admitting to yourself you'll defend them no matter what they do.

    This is insanity.

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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Well, I have to admit that some of these expenses such as travel can get quite high on their govt credit card, which they are responsible for until reimbursed. We don't know all the details, and I would be surprised if it weren't against regulations to require govt travel without a funding source in place. So things aren't always what they seem either. These employees who are "forced" to work due to national security or safety (like the military does) are probably covered under some emergency funding for immediate expenses related to their work.
    You're right, it can but it's no different for people that work for private companies. My company is pretty good about reimbursing expenses, but earlier this year an expense report got fowled up by someone in accounting and it took three months to get reimbursed for $800 in airline tickets.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    If they can function without everyone else - then why not go that route?
    Nonessential in the aviation world means nobody will be placed in immediate danger without these employees and the air traffic system will continue to function. (air traffic control still works and gets paid, pilots still can do examinations and renewals)

    However, it's the airport improvement projects and NextGen development being put on hold that could be an issue. The ATC system is being stretched awfully thin, both in technology (radar systems from the 70s) and staffing. Traffic loads are increasing and the system needs major updates to continue to service that much traffic. Airports need to be expanded to handle additional traffic also. These are employees you can go without... for a while. Eventually these things need to get done.

    It's like cleaning the toilet. Yeah, you don't have to clean it every week... but you probably are better off doing so and you are going to have a bad time if you stop cleaning it for 3 months.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    And you could have saved yourself a response by admitting to yourself you'll defend them no matter what they do.

    This is insanity.
    With that being said, let's look at the real reason that the shutdown occurred.

    Republicans and Democrats acknowledge that causes of the stalemate are twofold. Of immediate concern is language in Mica's proposal that would reduce or kill subsidies to rural airports, specifically targeting airports in Nevada, Montana and New Mexico -- three states with Democratic senators.

    Washington remains torn on FAA shutdown - Aug. 3, 2011
    The Republicans don't want to renew airline subsidies, which has the Democrats pissed off and that's the reason the Democrats are sitting on the bill.

    Airline subsidies? The airlines aren't making enough money? The Democrats are putting people out of work over airline subsidies?

    How many of the Libbos are going to step up and defend the Democrats, now?

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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    With that being said, let's look at the real reason that the shutdown occurred.



    The Republicans don't want to renew airline subsidies, which has the Democrats pissed off and that's the reason the Democrats are sitting on the bill.

    Airline subsidies? The airlines aren't making enough money? The Democrats are putting people out of work over airline subsidies?

    How many of the Libbos are going to step up and defend the Democrats, now?
    It has nothing to do with the subsidies. That republican move was specifically targeted at Democratic jurisdictions while the subsidies were left in place everywhere else. In other words, it was another republican dirty trick.

    The dispute is 100% about republican efforts to tie continued FAA funding to an effort to roll back union rules.

    If this was really about $16.5 million in subsidies then the republicans should be horsewhipped. The shutdown has already cost the government over a billion dollars in loss revenue. They could pay those subsides for a 100 years and it wouldn't equal the revenue they've already lost.

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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I understand how people like to play politics with the terms "essential" and nonessential", but within the govt there are categories of employees under these classes. Uniformed military are usually essential, plus civilian security, civilians required to maintain minimal operations (IT, facilities, certain supervisory personnel). These are usually consider mission essential personnel. It's a silly game that people like to play. The problem is that you don't understand what those terms really mean.
    [emphasis added by bubba]

    what i recognize is that you don't either
    at least not to the point to be able to describe what aspects of each position determine whether an employee is essential or non-essential
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It has nothing to do with the subsidies. That republican move was specifically targeted at Democratic jurisdictions while the subsidies were left in place everywhere else. In other words, it was another republican dirty trick.

    The dispute is 100% about republican efforts to tie continued FAA funding to an effort to roll back union rules.


    It has everything to do with airline subsidies. The Democrats want the subsidies, while the Republicans are trying to cut all this spending. I

    Wait, I thought the Leftists were opposed to subsidies!

    If this was really about $16.5 million in subsidies then the republicans should be horsewhipped. The shutdown has already cost the government over a billion dollars in loss revenue. They could pay those subsides for a 100 years and it wouldn't equal the revenue they've already lost.
    Well, then maybe the friggin Democrats should have given way on the airline subsidies. The Dems are ****ing themselves on this one.

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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It has nothing to do with the subsidies. That republican move was specifically targeted at Democratic jurisdictions while the subsidies were left in place everywhere else. In other words, it was another republican dirty trick.

    The dispute is 100% about republican efforts to tie continued FAA funding to an effort to roll back union rules.

    If this was really about $16.5 million in subsidies then the republicans should be horsewhipped. The shutdown has already cost the government over a billion dollars in loss revenue. They could pay those subsides for a 100 years and it wouldn't equal the revenue they've already lost.
    Yes, it is primarily about subsidies. Republicans want to stop subsidies for airports within easy driving distance of another major airport and those that have few passengers. Under the program, airlines must fly at least two round trips to these small airports each day. It's often the case that NO passengers are on the flights. The airlines don't care because the federal government is paying them.

    I think its hilarious that Dems are shutting down the FAA and costing the U.S. billions of dollars so they can preserve subsidies to major corporations.

    Hypocrisy anyone ???

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: FAA Shutdown Means Workers Must Pay To Work

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Yes, it is primarily about subsidies. Republicans want to stop subsidies for airports within easy driving distance of another major airport and those that have few passengers. Under the program, airlines must fly at least two round trips to these small airports each day. It's often the case that NO passengers are on the flights. The airlines don't care because the federal government is paying them.
    it can't be about the subsidies
    there was an attempt to pass a clean bill, to allow the FAA to receive its funding. that 'clean' bill eliminated any providions for elimination of union representation. it also contained no provision for the elimination of transit subsidies
    ... Later, Rockefeller sought a vote on a "clean" bill to end the shutdown that didn't include any subsidy cuts or other policy provisions. Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, blocked the vote, saying he was concerned about the labor issue, although the bill didn't contain a labor provision. ...
    Senate plan to end FAA shutdown falls apart : Kitsap Sun

    the cost of the subsidy program is $200 million annually. that is the amount the FCC loses weekly when it is prevented from receiving ticket taxes
    it makes no fiscal sense to give up $200 million a week to "save" $200 million per year

    I think its hilarious that Dems are shutting down the FAA and costing the U.S. billions of dollars so they can preserve subsidies to major corporations.

    Hypocrisy anyone ???
    the dems are refusing to take union rights away from employees who now have them
    as was pointed out above, there was an attempt to pass a clean bill to fund the FAA but that attempt was scuttled by the republicans
    appears the republicans are willing to give up $200 million in weekly revenues to "save" $200 million per year in transit subsidies
    but it gets worse. we are now expecting essential employees to cover their own work costs. the federal employee should NEVER be expected to subsidize the federal government
    and the 'family friendly' republicans are willing to allow the 4,000 laid off wage employees to suffer while this goes unresolved; likewise the 70,000 employees laid off by the contractors who have received "stop work" orders
    few will understand how expensive a stop work order is for the government to issue. when the work resumes, the government will have to pay for all the costs incurred during the stoppage, plus the additional monies required to re-start the project. that overhead, rental/lease expense, shrinkage of materials ... every cost the contractor would normally incur, except the direct labor wages ... will be passed on to the taxpayer as added expense of the job. like the additional ticket prices delta is now pocketing because the FAA is unable to collect them, this will be gravy to the construction companies

    this is another in a long series of the republicans acting in a way opposing the wage earners' interests
    Last edited by justabubba; 08-04-11 at 09:38 AM.
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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