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Thread: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    NEITHER party is fiscally responsible. Republicans amassed massive debt. Democrats couldnt even bother to submit a budget and ran up 5 trillion in 4 years. We wouldnt even be HAVING these discussions if it wasnt for the Tea Party. Yes...the evil tea party...NOT the people that have dug the country into a now 15.5 trillion dollar hole- Republicans and democrats and their mindless shills.
    While I agree that the Tea Party's actions brought many things with our national politic and our nation debt to light, I can't give them credit for it because of how they did it.

    Look, if the Tea Party was orchestrated to be that "responsible party" on all things "oversized government", why does it seem that everything they do is "attack the President and the Democrat party" if they are a mixture of Republicans, Democrats and Independents?" I would think with such a mixture of party voices they'd attack both sides, not just one. But that's what I hear from Tea Partiers: "We're here to stop all this out-of-control government spending and growth of government. Blame Obama, blame Democrats". Only near the end does anybody within the Tea Party begin to acknowledge that out-of-control spending was done by both parties, and it took President Obama to point that out, "re: Reagan raised the debt limit 18 times".

    If the Tea Party really wants to be viewed as "the responsible voice in our national politics", they need to branch away from the Right-wing and form their own party affliliated with no one except themselves. Only thing can they be taken seriously as "the true voices of reason and compromise in Congress". Until then, I and most of America will only see them as the radical, ultra-conservative wing of the Republican party renamed and packaged to be something it's really not - holding both sides accountable - when in truth they're only a bunch of right-wing extremist. (Sidenote: I wonder who really controls them and sets their mandate? Bachmann, Ron Paul, Eric Cantor or someoney else?)

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    NEITHER party is fiscally responsible. Republicans amassed massive debt. Democrats couldnt even bother to submit a budget and ran up 5 trillion in 4 years. We wouldnt even be HAVING these discussions if it wasnt for the Tea Party. Yes...the evil tea party...NOT the people that have dug the country into a now 15.5 trillion dollar hole- Republicans and democrats and their mindless shills.
    The democratic president is the only one who managed to create a surplus, which was promptly destroyed by bush* and the republicans. And most of that $15T hole was created under a repubs watch.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    While I agree that the Tea Party's actions brought many things with our national politic and our nation debt to light, I can't give them credit for it because of how they did it.

    Look, if the Tea Party was orchestrated to be that "responsible party" on all things "oversized government", why does it seem that everything they do is "attack the President and the Democrat party" if they are a mixture of Republicans, Democrats and Independents?" I would think with such a mixture of party voices they'd attack both sides, not just one. But that's what I hear from Tea Partiers: "We're here to stop all this out-of-control government spending and growth of government. Blame Obama, blame Democrats". Only near the end does anybody within the Tea Party begin to acknowledge that out-of-control spending was done by both parties, and it took President Obama to point that out, "re: Reagan raised the debt limit 18 times".

    If the Tea Party really wants to be viewed as "the responsible voice in our national politics", they need to branch away from the Right-wing and form their own party affliliated with no one except themselves. Only thing can they be taken seriously as "the true voices of reason and compromise in Congress". Until then, I and most of America will only see them as the radical, ultra-conservative wing of the Republican party renamed and packaged to be something it's really not - holding both sides accountable - when in truth they're only a bunch of right-wing extremist. (Sidenote: I wonder who really controls them and sets their mandate? Bachmann, Ron Paul, Eric Cantor or someoney else?)
    Perhaps the reason it seems that way to you is because you are so blindly ideologically bent. The Tea Party hasnt been targeting democrats and the president, they have been targeting REPUBLICANS. And frankly, while most wouldnt admit it, they espouse the exact same virtues as the majority of liberals that believe in RESPONSIBLE federal spending.

    As for branching off...its not going to happen, nor would it be effective. Its not unlike the Libertarians...there is just too much power vested in the two party system and too much pandering to thoughtless folks that buy into the my party good, your party evil mindset. The Tea Party is doing just fine targeting republican candidates. What would be absolutely AWESOME is if fiscally responsible democrats actually engaged the battle.

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The democratic president is the only one who managed to create a surplus, which was promptly destroyed by bush* and the republicans. And most of that $15T hole was created under a repubs watch.
    Only in the eyes of an ideologue...good ****ing lord...

    Clinton created not a single budget. He passed not a single budget. He was blessed with the good sense to work with a fiscally conservative congress...and he gets major props for that. Bush gets the blame for signing every deficit budget bill he signed. The GOP is responsible for about 9 trillion in 6 years. The democrats are responsible for 5 trillion in 4 years. And you want to thump your chest and play king of dunces.

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Perhaps the reason it seems that way to you is because you are so blindly ideologically bent. The Tea Party hasnt been targeting democrats and the president, they have been targeting REPUBLICANS. And frankly, while most wouldnt admit it, they espouse the exact same virtues as the majority of liberals that believe in RESPONSIBLE federal spending.
    Is that why they ran as republicans against democrats?

    And since when do liberals support a smaller govt, cutting SS, and oppose Obama? How many liberals think Obama was born in Kenya?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Only in the eyes of an ideologue...good ****ing lord...

    Clinton created not a single budget. He passed not a single budget. He was blessed with the good sense to work with a fiscally conservative congress...and he gets major props for that. Bush gets the blame for signing every deficit budget bill he signed. The GOP is responsible for about 9 trillion in 6 years. The democrats are responsible for 5 trillion in 4 years. And you want to thump your chest and play king of dunces.
    So the current budget problems aren't the fault of Obama, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Perhaps the reason it seems that way to you is because you are so blindly ideologically bent. The Tea Party hasnt been targeting democrats and the president, they have been targeting REPUBLICANS. And frankly, while most wouldnt admit it, they espouse the exact same virtues as the majority of liberals that believe in RESPONSIBLE federal spending.

    As for branching off...its not going to happen, nor would it be effective. Its not unlike the Libertarians...there is just too much power vested in the two party system and too much pandering to thoughtless folks that buy into the my party good, your party evil mindset. The Tea Party is doing just fine targeting republican candidates. What would be absolutely AWESOME is if fiscally responsible democrats actually engaged the battle.
    Far from it!

    I see the need to protect the poor and unemployed just as I see the importance of protecting our nation's posterity. I understand that if you tax businesses and wealthy individuals too much, they won't reinvest neither in the national economy nor in their business ventures. I get that totally! However, I also understand that in situations such as this country is experiencing RIGHT NOW, you can't place the bulk of the responsibility on bringing this nation out of its economic slump on those who have very little, if anything more, to give! As such, the wealthiest among us have had nearly 30 years to do whatever it is they wished to do with their capital. Moreover and more to the point, it was the wealthiest among us who caused this economic problem, not the poor, not the middle-class. Yet, we are being asked to carry the burden. It's unfair!

    As to the Tea Party, as I said, okay, NOW they hold Republican's feet to the fire in insisting on more spending cuts and a balanced budget amendment. But as I've pointed out neither the CCB bill proposed in the House, the debt limit agreement presently (and apparently reached by members of Congress) nor the 1985 Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control at did anything to rein in spending in those areas we're being told are costing our government the most - Social Security, Medicare and VA benefits. Democrats haven't touched them and except for Paul Ryan's Medicare plan Republicans stayed clear of messing with them, too. Yet, who has the Tea Party attacked the most since prior to the Nov 2010 midterms? I don't have to tell you because you already know the answer to that question.

    So, let's not pretend that the Tea Party has acted with nobility here. They may have sigular purpose of forcing government to reduce its spending, but until recently the blame coming from them has been very one-sided.

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i agree with the caveat that that measure only works when you don't have an artificial buyer (rhymes with "ned") buying up 70% of issuance. but consider the direction of moody's; they are always the dumb money, the last to know.
    This is false.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/econom...post1059542495

    i agree, however you will note that it wasn't the debt ceiling measure that has done this, but rather the lack of a fix to the long-term debt and continued deficits.
    How are you defining the bold?

    bondholders have somewhat fled the even worse nightmare of Europe (temporarily driving the rate down) and have been operating in an environment where the Fed is massively intervening to drive the yield down even further.
    The carry trade is alive and well, as the stability and liquidity of the U.S. Treasury market is the epicenter of it all. Why are yields still so..... low!?!?!?

    The US Bond yields could change extremely rapidly because the underlying economic logic of why they are currently low isn't stable.
    Would you explain this with a bit more detail?
    Last edited by Kushinator; 08-01-11 at 11:25 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    While I agree that the Tea Party's actions brought many things with our national politic and our nation debt to light, I can't give them credit for it because of how they did it.

    Look, if the Tea Party was orchestrated to be that "responsible party" on all things "oversized government", why does it seem that everything they do is "attack the President and the Democrat party" if they are a mixture of Republicans, Democrats and Independents?" I would think with such a mixture of party voices they'd attack both sides, not just one. But that's what I hear from Tea Partiers: "We're here to stop all this out-of-control government spending and growth of government. Blame Obama, blame Democrats". Only near the end does anybody within the Tea Party begin to acknowledge that out-of-control spending was done by both parties, and it took President Obama to point that out, "re: Reagan raised the debt limit 18 times".
    you apparently haven't been paying attention - the Tea Party movement is just as willing to target Republicans; if anything, it is more fervent when it does so.

    If the Tea Party really wants to be viewed as "the responsible voice in our national politics", they need to branch away from the Right-wing and form their own party affliliated with no one except themselves. Only thing can they be taken seriously as "the true voices of reason and compromise in Congress". Until then, I and most of America will only see them as the radical, ultra-conservative wing of the Republican party renamed and packaged to be something it's really not - holding both sides accountable - when in truth they're only a bunch of right-wing extremist
    wanting to balance the budget is right wing extremism. about 70% of the Public, apparently, are right wing extremists. who knew?

    . (Sidenote: I wonder who really controls them and sets their mandate? Bachmann, Ron Paul, Eric Cantor or someoney else?)
    nobody "controls" the tea party movement. that is it's strength and weakness.

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    Re: Moody's: Neither Debt Plan Protects the Nations' AAA Rating

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    funny. I say they are buying 70% of issuance, and you claim it's false, because they aren't buying up to 70% of all bonds, but rather 70% of issuance.

    however, I would love to see your argument for how the fed has not intervened lately to drive down rates .

    How are you defining the bold?
    as we move forward, our deficits will be driven by our entitlements, and increasingly by interest on the debt accumulated. we need a way to fix the first, so we never get drowned by the second. we need policies that will consistently produce >3% growth and severely curtail expenditures.

    The carry trade is alive and well, as the stability and liquidity of the U.S. Treasury market is the epicenter of it all. Why are yields still so..... low!?!?!?
    because we remain one of the less bad of the options currently available. Though I understand Britain might be moving into that spot.?

    Would you explain this with a bit more detail?
    the low rate on our bonds is currently dependent on external instability. not on any factors inherent to ourselves. such a situation is itself inherently unstable.
    Last edited by cpwill; 08-04-11 at 08:59 AM.

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