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Thread: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

  1. #31
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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    So if we can't cut with everything on the line, when can we?
    Out another way, if raising the debt limit is truly that important, why can't democrats make some compromises on future spending to get it done?
    Please, dont hit me with the taxes argument, government has shown that all it knows how to do with more money is spend it, so why should they get any more at all?

    Thats exactly the point that is being made, and the miniscule cuts being made now are almost nothing compared to what needs to be done in the future. 24% of GDP is unsustainable. The borrowing is unsustainable. The entitlement programs are unsustainable. So what do we do?

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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    CBO scores Boehner’s new bill: $22 billion in savings this year, $917 billion over 10 years « Hot Air

    CBO Scoring of Boehner's new bill. The hyperventilating on this thread is laughable. It does not save enough.
    The tea party may not be in charge but wanting more than 90billion in cuts a year is admirable.

    By the by, where is the democrat plan? Or maybe Obama's?


    CBO: Democrats’ debt bill tops GOP’s in spending cuts


    "The Senate Democratic debt-limit bill would cut future spending by $2.2 trillion over 10 years — much deeper than the House GOP alternative, according to figures Congress‘ chief scorekeeper released early Wednesday.

    The Congressional Budget Office said the plan by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid would raise the government’s borrowing limit by $2.7 trillion, and cut $2.2 trillion from future spending, chiefly by limiting the amount of money spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    House Speaker John A. Boehner’s plan, meanwhile, would produce just $850 billion in savings, versus $900 billion in new debt authority, according to a CBO analysis released late Tuesday. That sent the Ohio Republican back to the drawing board to rewrite his bill to try to meet his own pledge of topping any debt increase dollar-for-dollar with new spending cuts."

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    True DM ... yet if an agreement is not reached and congress abidcated their responsibilities he must be CIC and protect our country.

    Yes ... there will be hell to pay and possibly a lost election in 2012 ... yet it is his duty to protect from terrorists ... be it jihadists hoping for virgins or republicans playing a wicked economic game for special interests and corporate personhood.
    Oh.. I agree.. The tricky part will be making sure the back lash is against the republicans where it belongs and not the democrats.. It is a catch 22 no matter how you look at it..

    Right now, the polls I have seen are leaning against the republicans.. Nobody wants medicaid, medicare, or SS to be messed with.. Everyone wants the Tax cuts for the rich to expire.. What I don't want is for budget crisis to suddenly become an issue about democrats.. They didn't create this issue.. Republicans are completely to blame for this.. Their biggest issue is failure to handle the tea party issue.. As they are starting to see.. Last election wasn't a republican take over of the house.. It was the fracturing of the republican party.. And now the tea party is driving them into a ditch and destroying the nation and the future of republicans at the same time.. They just need to stop kissing the butts of the rich and powerful tea party elite and start becoming conservatives again working for the good of the people..

  4. #34
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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    CBO: Democrats’ debt bill tops GOP’s in spending cuts


    "The Senate Democratic debt-limit bill would cut future spending by $2.2 trillion over 10 years — much deeper than the House GOP alternative, according to figures Congress‘ chief scorekeeper released early Wednesday.

    The Congressional Budget Office said the plan by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid would raise the government’s borrowing limit by $2.7 trillion, and cut $2.2 trillion from future spending, chiefly by limiting the amount of money spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    House Speaker John A. Boehner’s plan, meanwhile, would produce just $850 billion in savings, versus $900 billion in new debt authority, according to a CBO analysis released late Tuesday. That sent the Ohio Republican back to the drawing board to rewrite his bill to try to meet his own pledge of topping any debt increase dollar-for-dollar with new spending cuts."

    Pardon me, but counting drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan as savings is a gimick. They are going to happen whether Reid passes a bill on it or not.

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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Pardon me, but counting drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan as savings is a gimick. They are going to happen whether Reid passes a bill on it or not.
    Spending on unnecessary wars is our most wasteful spending. Funny the GOP didn't think to include the most wasteful spending before going after our seniors. Especially since much of the trillions the wars cost was taken from our senior's SS trust funds!
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-30-11 at 04:23 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Fact? I beg to differ, more like opinion. I can do the same thing to FACT: Republicans are defending the interests of the people and the only thing being hostage is Obama's and the democrat's political delusion of some false "utopia" where we can spend money and debt on things we can't afford.

    btw FACT: Newsmax/InsiderAdvantage Poll: Voters Don't Want Debt Ceiling Hike Voters do not want the debt ceiling raised.

    And look at that, a post with less sentences and more substance than either of you. Who is calling who a terrorist now? Perhaps both of you will learn to cool it with the hyperbole. We know you are passionate, but you don't need to make up BS.
    LMAO... so... republicans have never engaged in spending money we can't afford? Cheney never said "deficits don't matter?" The reason I'm laughing is because of the lack of honesty, morals and ethics by members of both party followers to examine their own failings first, correct these failings, take the high-ground and then point fingers.

    The proper response is to refute the following, not play discredit by labeling and using silly examples.... So which of the following is not true?

    They (the tea partiers) are beating the drums threatening all those receiving entitlements (both those who deserve them like those on Social Security, and those that are abusing the system) with not receiving their income.
    They are threatening the world with a second round of financial meltdown to that they can flex their muscle.
    They are threatening employment.
    They are threatening growth and security.
    They are threatening the already besieged middle class and what savings and retirement they have left.... and for what? A law that serves no purpose at all, and has been an automatic vote since 1979...

    As I have said, I agree that this issue needs the attention of the American people in a "country first" not "party before country" manner. However, now is not the time to do so. There have been countless opportunities to address this in the past. Doing it now and not waiting until after the debt ceiling is raised serves only one purpose... a power play by a minority faction of one party. If they truly had Our best interest in mind and not a power play... the ceiling would have been raised weeks ago.

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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    a fellow liberal called out on her false rhetoric? You have one of three options 1. cry me a river 2. repeat the slogans "republicans are racist/terrorists/sexist/any-ists u want to add", or 3. do both.
    Actually, you didn't call her out on anything. You couldn't intelligently dispute anything she said. You couldn't prove her wrong. You just attacked her. It appears that you've taken the only path that a partisan hack like yourself knows - ignore the facts, attack the post. And now you want to talk about crying and racism? Sounds like you're the one doing the crying. And the racism - 90% of the time I see somebody pull the race card, it's a rightie. Congrats, at least you're in the majority on something.
    Last edited by Sgt Meowenstein; 07-30-11 at 09:33 AM.


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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    So if we can't cut with everything on the line, when can we?
    Out another way, if raising the debt limit is truly that important, why can't democrats make some compromises on future spending to get it done?
    Please, dont hit me with the taxes argument, government has shown that all it knows how to do with more money is spend it, so why should they get any more at all?

    Thats exactly the point that is being made, and the miniscule cuts being made now are almost nothing compared to what needs to be done in the future. 24% of GDP is unsustainable. The borrowing is unsustainable. The entitlement programs are unsustainable. So what do we do?
    The economic collapse of 2008 resulted in an annual revenue shrinkage of $400B and in increase in unemployment spending of $100B. That is one-third of the problem. Raise taxes on the persons that are actually prospering on this economy. It is ultimately has the least negative impact on the economy and places pain on a group that is in the best position to absorb that pain. You are not serious about the deficit if you are not willing to raise taxes.

    Then again, this whole thing is not now, nor has it ever been, about deficit reduction.

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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Do you mean exacerbate? If so, in other words you're saying that government spending creates job growth opportunities? The government has spent the US into the greatest debt that has ever been accumulated. Remember Obama's stimulus package? If that's the case then why is unemployment at over 9% in the USA?
    Government spending does put money directly into the economy and jobs are created. The problem with the stimulus of 2008 was that is was only $500B of spending (the rest was tax cuts) and way too small to overcome such in incredible slowing of the economy. We do not really know how many jobs were saved from the stimulus, but a pretty good measure of that can be the number of state and local government jobs that have been lost this year after the stimulus ran out.

    Government Expenditure effect on the economy:

    Let's say the government contracts a building maintenance service. It pays the service $1000 for a month's work. Let's say the owner makes a 20% pre-tax on the business and the rest is paid to the workers that actually do the cleaning (we will leave supplies out here for simplicity)... The owner has a $200 profit. It is taxed at 30%... $60 back to the government. The worker earns $800. Payroll taxes on that are $62 to the worker and $62 to the employer... we are now up to $184 back to the government. The worker has a $800 income... after deductions, lets call it $700. That at 30% is $210.... now the government has $390 of its $1000 back. The worker, as a lower wager earner, saves nothing and consumes everything (the remaining $590 is spent).... if they paid $100 to a plumber, he pays $30 in taxes. They buy groceries with the other $494... that store has a 20% pre-tax profit, so another $30 to the government....plus the store has workers and supplies.... so the $1000 paid by the government is a $1000 in revenue to the cleaning company, $100 in revenue to the plumber, $490 in revenue to the grocery store.... and $454 (45%) in tax receipts. This is just a two tier look, it assumes everyone pays 30% to the federal government and does not consider other state and local taxes... but it is the way the system works. it is why stimulus spending works. Of course, you need an economy to continue to move money through it.

    Spending money does not fix the deficit other than it stimulates the revenue flow to the government... that will fix the deficit. $400B of revenue disappeared because the economy headed south. As my example shows you, cutting the $1000 from the government cleaning bill will have revenue consequences. it is not a $1000 saved. Should the choose to cut its cleaning services, than all of this contracts... starting with the loss of the maintenance workers job. Since the economy isn't producing jobs, he goes from being a tax payer to a guy collecting unemployment... so tax revenues go down and government expenditure goes up.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-30-11 at 12:16 PM.

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    Re: Breaking: John Boehner Yanks Debt Ceiling Bill, House Vote Postponed

    As an Australian, can you guys hurry up and sort this out? This situation is not just bad for you, it's bad for the entire world. If you default, there will almost certainly be another global recession. One that your congress DELIBERATELY inflicted. The whole thing is completely ridiculous. I really thought you would have sorted this out weeks/months ago. Why in the hell are you leaving this until there is only 3 days left? Your credit rating is almost certainly going to be downgraded now, which is going to cost you big time. All because your congressmen are too childish to negotiate. Seriously, wtf are you guys doing? The entire lot of you should be marching on the WH demanding a deal by this point. If you guys default (which I'm still hoping you won't, but I might be underestimating just how stupid some of your politicians are) it will screw your country, my country and the world. The whole thing is just so irresponsible, why did you vote for these idiots?!

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