Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 27 of 27

Thread: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

  1. #21
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    However, what they think, doesn't equal that it was in their best interest. Some use rather controted logic to make the argument.
    What they think is irrelevant - countries are judged on their action and all countries regardless of their politics act in their self interest.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #22
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What they think is irrelevant - countries are judged on their action and all countries regardless of their politics act in their self interest.
    No, they don't. They convince themselves it is in their self interest, but largely they are wrong. It was not in Iraq's best self interest to invade Kuwait, and history shows it was contrary to their self interests. The same can be said concerning our invasion of iraq.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #23
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they don't.
    Please prove this with evidence. You're opinion on the matter is also irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They convince themselves it is in their self interest, but largely they are wrong.
    It doesn't matter if psychologically they have convinced themselves or not, countries still act in their self interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It was not in Iraq's best self interest to invade Kuwait, and history shows it was contrary to their self interests. The same can be said concerning our invasion of iraq.
    The reasons for Iraq's invasion of Kuwait:

    a.) part of Iraq and therefore it was not an invasion (self interest)
    b.) Kuwaits oil production was high and Iraq wanted that oil (self interes)
    c.) It was later identified that Iraq's debts were tantamount and they needed cash from oil sales due to the long Iraq-Iran war which tapped Iraq's coffers (self interest)

    Iraq did not invade Kuwait on behalf of someone else, and your claim or is it subtle hint(?) that Iraq had some other selfless motive is not supported by fact.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #24
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Please prove this with evidence. You're opinion on the matter is also irrelevant. It doesn't matter if psychologically they have convinced themselves or not, countries still act in their self interest.

    The reasons for Iraq's invasion of Kuwait:

    a.) part of Iraq and therefore it was not an invasion (self interest)
    b.) Kuwaits oil production was high and Iraq wanted that oil (self interes)
    c.) It was later identified that Iraq's debts were tantamount and they needed cash from oil sales due to the long Iraq-Iran war which tapped Iraq's coffers (self interest)

    Iraq did not invade Kuwait on behalf of someone else, and your claim or is it subtle hint(?) that Iraq had some other selfless motive is not supported by fact.
    You have to have the ability to reason to understand that logic is support. No one said Iraq invaded on behalf of anyone else. What was stated was that Saddam convinced himself it was in iraqis best interest, but we can factually see it wasn't. Iraq was much worse off having invaded. Same can be said concerning the US invading Iraq. It cost a lot, not in best interest. It hurt our reputation, not in our best interest. Help our enemies recruit, not in our best interest. All for very little to nothing to show as gain, which too is not in or best interest. Best interest is not what something things, but what can be shown to better the country. It is in my best interest not eat poorly, go to work, and take care of myself and things because I will be better off for doing so. I might think it is my best interest to rob a gas station, but if I did and spent a few years in prison, I think we could easily conclude it wasn't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #25
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You have to have the ability to reason to understand that logic is support. No one said Iraq invaded on behalf of anyone else. What was stated was that Saddam convinced himself it was in iraqis best interest, but we can factually see it wasn't.
    You don't seem to get it yet. What the leaders psychological state of mind is, is irrelevant. Whether he convinced him self or not... he acted in what he considered Iraq's best interest. End of story.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #26
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You don't seem to get it yet. What the leaders psychological state of mind is, is irrelevant. Whether he convinced him self or not... he acted in what he considered Iraq's best interest. End of story.
    Actually, you just stated you agreed with me. Notice what you said: he acted in what he CONSIDERED Iraq's best interest. Consiodered, thought, believed, but not what WAS in Iraq's best interest. See it yet?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #27
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:14 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,295

    Re: WikiLeaks documents shed light on US-backed intervention in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You have to have the ability to reason to understand that logic is support. No one said Iraq invaded on behalf of anyone else. What was stated was that Saddam convinced himself it was in iraqis best interest, but we can factually see it wasn't. Iraq was much worse off having invaded. Same can be said concerning the US invading Iraq. It cost a lot, not in best interest. It hurt our reputation, not in our best interest. Help our enemies recruit, not in our best interest. All for very little to nothing to show as gain, which too is not in or best interest. Best interest is not what something things, but what can be shown to better the country. It is in my best interest not eat poorly, go to work, and take care of myself and things because I will be better off for doing so. I might think it is my best interest to rob a gas station, but if I did and spent a few years in prison, I think we could easily conclude it wasn't.
    It was not in the best interests of the people of the USA, but it is/was most certainly in the best interests of the Energy companies and the huge Military/Industrial Complex. Wars make money for them, win or lose. Very profitable business and we have a $700 Billion+ Military Offense budget. Notice we talk tax cuts or not. We talk cutting SS, Medicare, social programs but noone says "cut the friggin' military budget." Same story in Libya, Afghanistan, and maybe Hugo's paradise is next. Ain't it great to be the lead warmonger and attack dog for the Corporatists. They were already rich 100 years ago.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •