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Thread: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

  1. #11
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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I dunno, it's probably worth a try. I suspect that the result would be some agreements that had the broad contours of what Congress could support...but without the grandstanding and "poison pill" amendments that bills from the at-large Congress would be subject to. And a smaller group would hopefully be more congenial and more intelligent than Congress as a whole. The idea behind a "Gang of Six" type of arrangement makes a lot of sense...the problem is that only the Senate was represented and their proposal was DOA in the House. Having a "Super Congress" would solve that problem.
    The members of the 2nd legislature would be elected officials and negotiating the same political minefield that the current Congress faces. It's an absolute waste, not to mention that it would be un-constitutional, since the Constitution only allows for a house of a representatives and a senate and it would go against the whole representation idea; taxation without representation. The notion is plum crazy.

    Mitch Daniels has gone ****ing nuts if he supports this idea.

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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    This doesn't sound like a separate legislative body or a "super" Congress. It sounds like a legislative committee that is getting an unfortunate nickname.

    Nothing that comes out of this legislative committee goes directly to the President's desk for signature -- it goes to Congress for approval. The structure of this legislative committee is certainly unique, and the general membership won't be able to amend the bills that come out of this legislative committee, but it's still a legislative committee.

    Considering how hysterical Washington politics have become, and how common its become to play Chicken with the debt limit, something has to change. I don't know if this is the answer, but it's worth a shot.


    ETA: Additionally, no way that establishing a committee like this is unConstitutional. Maybe unwise, but only time and experience can tell us that.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    Super Congress? what the hell...this is why I don't read Huffpo. Make **** sound like it's bigger than it really is.

    This sounds like a bipartisan legislative commission in the vein of the "Simpson-Bowles" commission, except that it will be created by Congress rather than the President. To suggest that this is somehow some super, new, powerful legislative body is simply absurd.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The members of the 2nd legislature would be elected officials and negotiating the same political minefield that the current Congress faces. It's an absolute waste, not to mention that it would be un-constitutional, since the Constitution only allows for a house of a representatives and a senate and it would go against the whole representation idea; taxation without representation. The notion is plum crazy.
    You don't have a very good grasp of the Constitution if you think this is unconstitutional. Any recommendation that these 12 congresspeople made would STILL have to be voted on by the House and Senate, just as they are now. The only difference is that they'd be fast-tracked and other members of Congress couldn't offer amendments; they'd have to have a clean up-or-down vote. There is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing congresspeople the right to amend the bills of their colleagues; that practice is just one of the current rules of parliamentary procedure which can be changed at any time.
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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    I'm starting to think McConnell needs to go. Someone talk me out of it please.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You don't have a very good grasp of the Constitution if you think this is unconstitutional. Any recommendation that these 12 congresspeople made would STILL have to be voted on by the House and Senate, just as they are now. The only difference is that they'd be fast-tracked and other members of Congress couldn't offer amendments; they'd have to have a clean up-or-down vote. There is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing congresspeople the right to amend the bills of their colleagues; that practice is just one of the current rules of parliamentary procedure which can be changed at any time.
    And for this reason, you love it.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Well, Obama did say in his campaign that he wanted to fundamentally change America.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    You can't blame Obama alone for this. This just shows how messed up both parties are.
    I've said it since the McConnell plan was first mentioned, it's an abdication of Congress' lawmaking, taxation and appropriations responsibilities, moreso if this so-call "super Congress" is formed.

    Congress already has two separate financial committees that are suppose to review the balance sheets from Treasury and determine if the appropriations authorized by Congress are affordable. Then you have the CBO whose suppose to "score" the bills Congress appropriates. Point is very simple: Congress already has the tools to lower the debt, reduce the deficit and balance the budget is they'd just put partisan politics aside and show some courage to act. So far, only one side has shown the political will to move forward. Now, I can understand why entitlements and tax reform aren't on the table. It's too much to deal with in such a short period of time. But Congress can cut spending and raise revenue through closing some tax loopholes both parties have agreed on and get this debt limit issue behind them. Unfortunately, the GOP refuses to accept any proposal that includes increased revenue without including entitlement reform into the mix. I agree Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security need to be revamped for long-term sustainability, but now is not the time to insist on changing these systems. And by insisting that such reforms must take place during these debt limit negotiations, the GOP effectively are holding the country's financial security hostage.

    To put things in perspective, it took nearly 10-years for some of the most powerful financial institutions and Congress to put this country on its current financial footing. I don't think a 10-year deficit reduction plan that includes both spending cuts and tax increases of some kind but particularly on those who got us in this mess is asking too much.

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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You don't have a very good grasp of the Constitution if you think this is unconstitutional. Any recommendation that these 12 congresspeople made would STILL have to be voted on by the House and Senate, just as they are now. The only difference is that they'd be fast-tracked and other members of Congress couldn't offer amendments; they'd have to have a clean up-or-down vote. There is nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing congresspeople the right to amend the bills of their colleagues; that practice is just one of the current rules of parliamentary procedure which can be changed at any time.
    Well, that's not what you said before. However, it's still nothing but a waste of time.

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    Re: "Super Congress" Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim To Create New Legislative Body

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, that's not what you said before.
    What do you mean? Any proposal still has to go through the regular bill process as outlined in the Constitution, this just streamlines the process. I'm not sure where you thought I said anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst
    However, it's still nothing but a waste of time.
    Depends how it's implemented. If it's just a handful of random congresspeople who don't feel any particular sense of duty or desire to compromise, it's a waste of time. If it's something like the "Gang of Six" (but including members of the House) then it could be very useful.
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