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Profits soar amid mass layoffs

haymarket said:
from Washnut



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They have to change what they value and what value they place upon what they value. I would hope they value doing business in America with the American people for a long long time and want a sustainable nation which can provide them with a worker base and a customer base and profits.

I can say that is true at least at the company I worked at. However, we have to follow markets. When many manufacturers move to Asia then if you are selling stuff you have to sell into Asia versus the U.S.






Sorry, but I do not want free trade. Fair trade - possibly. And I want the government to exercise its Constitutional powers given to it by the Founding Fathers in this regard.



I would not completely disagree or completely agree. Immigration does hurt some of our workforce. Immigration does provide a necessary workforce for labor that American business will not pay American wages to.

In my job with the Michigan state legislature, we recently looked at proposed legislation to cut down on migrants jobs in the state. They wanted to mandate contractors on state jobs to use the EVerify system and had a penalty of from $100 to $1,000.00 for a violation. Of course, a behind the scenes deal was made between its right wing sponsor and the Farm Bureau to exempt all agricultural jobs and then side deals made with the tourist businesses to exempt such jobs as hotel maids, cooks, waitresses and others. At the second committee hearing, the rep I work for proposed that we allow NO exemptions of any kind. He proposed that the law apply to ALL immigrants wanting to work in our state. He proposed a fine of $1,000 per day per worker who was not either a documented legal immigrant or one who had legal papers to work. He further added a criminal penalty for anyone who knowingly hired illegal workers.

Do I have to tell you what the Republicans did next?
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Well on this issue I totally support what your rep tried to do. It seems crazy to me to exempt industries, especially in a state like Michigan where unemployment is so high. All folks are saying is that certain industries want a lower minimum wage. Perhaps that is a compromise your rep should consider. A slightly lower minimum wage in these industries might be a reasonable tardeoff.
 
apdst said:
Who do you think is going to pay for the single payer healthcare system?
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The same people that pay for everything else in America. Why would health care be any different?
 
1Perry said:
All you do is complain about what we are going to have to do.
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And you feel that is not important or we should us play ostrich and stick our heads in the sand and pretend these events are not happening and these proven trends have not take hold? Would you rather we play the smiling but dumb Pollyanna instead of the needed Cassandra only to find out too late that we are doomed as a great society whose glory days are in our past never to be recovered?

I chose a different path thank you.
 
washunut said:
Well on this issue I totally support what your rep tried to do. It seems crazy to me to exempt industries, especially in a state like Michigan where unemployment is so high. All folks are saying is that certain industries want a lower minimum wage. Perhaps that is a compromise your rep should consider. A slightly lower minimum wage in these industries might be a reasonable tardeoff.
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Thank you. I did play a role in it ... even be it a minor one.

I have seen no such suggestion for a different minimum wage although anything can and probably will happen so I will keep you informed.
 
haymarket said:
The same people that pay for everything else in America. Why would health care be any different?
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What is amazing to me is folks don't realize we actually penalize companies for providing health care to their employees. That is a cost that they bear that some of their competitors may refuse to pay.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
It depends what type of labor. There are blue collar jobs that you wouldnt know how to perform unless you had a heck of a lot of schooling / training.
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labor is a commodity no matter the quality you look to hire be it brain surgeons for a hospital or bed pan changers
 
haymarket said:
And you feel that is not important or we should us play ostrich and stick our heads in the sand and pretend these events are not happening and these proven trends have not take hold? Would you rather we play the smiling but dumb Pollyanna instead of the needed Cassandra only to find out too late that we are doomed as a great society whose glory days are in our past never to be recovered?

I chose a different path thank you.
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Yes, you complain about what we simply have to do. The problem lies with Wall Street's belief that inflation must happen. It doesn't.
 
1Perry said:
Yes, you complain about what we simply have to do. The problem lies with Wall Street's belief that inflation must happen. It doesn't.
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I would strongly hope that all of us complain about what we have to do. Why would you not share that concern?
 
You know what? All the posters who have said it is cheaper to produce in China than in America are correct. So let's change that. I propose we put a tariff on everything made outside our borders so if it costs 1$ to make in China and costs 3$ to make here then we charge the company 2 dollars the moment it hits our borders. Oh and corporate tax rates need to stay where they are at, but will actually be charged from now on at the full 35%. However, if you make come back to America and make jobs here then I'm fine with give you a nice break. It's time to end this neo-liberal free trade and start taking care of our workers.
 
U.S. Socialist. said:
You know what? All the posters who have said it is cheaper to produce in China than in America are correct. So let's change that. I propose we put a tariff on everything made outside our borders so if it costs 1$ to make in China and costs 3$ to make here then we charge the company 2 dollars the moment it hits our borders. Oh and corporate tax rates need to stay where they are at, but will actually be charged from now on at the full 35%. However, if you make come back to America and make jobs here then I'm fine with give you a nice break. It's time to end this neo-liberal free trade and start taking care of our workers.
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how did bush's tariff on foreign steel work out for you.

ever heard the phrase money talks BS walks? its actually different. Money can walk and the BSers tend to get stuck in place meaning those with the money can go to where they want
 
TurtleDude said:
how did bush's tariff on foreign steel work out for you.

ever heard the phrase money talks BS walks? its actually different. Money can walk and the BSers tend to get stuck in place meaning those with the money can go to where they want
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How is our current free trade policy working for the American working class? Terrible and that is who I care about. I don't give damn if some parasite CEO can't afford a second yacht.
 
U.S. Socialist. said:
You know what? All the posters who have said it is cheaper to produce in China than in America are correct. So let's change that. I propose we put a tariff on everything made outside our borders so if it costs 1$ to make in China and costs 3$ to make here then we charge the company 2 dollars the moment it hits our borders. Oh and corporate tax rates need to stay where they are at, but will actually be charged from now on at the full 35%. However, if you make come back to America and make jobs here then I'm fine with give you a nice break. It's time to end this neo-liberal free trade and start taking care of our workers.
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That has been tried before and with disastrous effects, but lets entertain this thought, so will we have a answer to the countries we export to which will do the exact same thing we would propose to do. the answer I am afraid would be trade wars which can lead to war. Perhaps our government comes back to reality and quit over regulating and over taxing our manufacturing base or once was our base so that this country can be competitive. Now just remember we have to be competitive in the world market place but we can't over tax it ore over regulate it, it's out of bounds, therefor we have to adjust and adapt here at home. If we fail another country will be more than willing to step up and push us aside.
 
deltabtry said:
That has been tried before and with disastrous effects, but lets entertain this thought, so will we have a answer to the countries we export to which will do the exact same thing we would propose to do. the answer I am afraid would be trade wars which can lead to war. Perhaps our government comes back to reality and quit over regulating and over taxing our manufacturing base or once was our base so that this country can be competitive. Now just remember we have to be competitive in the world market place but we can't over tax it ore over regulate it, it's out of bounds, therefor we have to adjust and adapt here at home. If we fail another country will be more than willing to step up and push us aside.
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I'm sorry, it is clear that our current plan is hurting our workers. That is the bottom line. I don't care about the rich or CEOs. They are parasites. These policies are harmful to the working class. Call me when free-trade actually helps American workers.
 
U.S. Socialist. said:
I'm sorry, it is clear that our current plan is hurting our workers. That is the bottom line. I don't care about the rich or CEOs. They are parasites. These policies are harmful to the working class. Call me when free-trade actually helps American workers.
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You need to reread your post, and then ask yourself when was the last time a poor man or women gave you a job and wrote you a pay check every week. The American worker is being hurt because of our current tax laws and over regulation. No one is asking you to care about CEO's or the rich but remember one thing, they do most of the hiring in this country past and present and parasites can be found on all levels of society. Now your not free trade, you just advocated for tariffs did you not?
Lastly how old are you?
 
deltabtry said:
You need to reread your post, and then ask yourself when was the last time a poor man or women gave you a job and wrote you a pay check every week. The American worker is being hurt because of our current tax laws and over regulation. No one is asking you to care about CEO's or the rich but remember one thing, they do most of the hiring in this country past and present and parasites can be found on all levels of society. Now your not free trade, you just advocated for tariffs did you not?
Lastly how old are you?
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Of course I'm not free trade. Neither are a lot of people on the Left, however. Most of the rich people are creating jobs and writing checks for people in China and other foreign countries, so your argument does not hold water. As for my age it is not at all relevant to the issue unless you are one of those people who thinks being young makes you naive or ignorant. In which case I really don't care what you think, because age does not equal maturity. I know the argument though, I've heard it from a republican congressman it goes soemthing like "young people just vote feelings when they get out in the real world they'll be conservatives. Despite all the liberals and other leftists out in the "real world."
 
haymarket said:
And how long can YOU exist in a land where there is shrinking employment for large numbers of people who can vote

How long can you pretend that this is not a disturbing trend in which millions and millions of people are simply superfluous and no longer necessary to feed the corporate machine?

How long can you pretend that companies can embrace technology instead of workers and there is no real future for tens of millions of Americans?

How long can you pretend that America is not sliding downhill towards becoming a two level society with the rich getting richer and everybody else struggling to just not fall off the damn cliff?

From the attitude expressed my many right wingers here - I would say one hell of a long time. Too bad this country is going to hell on a roller coaster and the right wingers onsessed with themselves over all others in society are doing their best to grease the skids so the car crashes all the sooner.
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The folks harming employment aren't the businesses that are laying people off, it's the folks putting more and more regulations, taxes and uncertainty on business that are to blame.
 
haymarket said:
I would strongly hope that all of us complain about what we have to do. Why would you not share that concern?
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There is little reason to complain about improving things.
 
U.S. Socialist. said:
You know what? All the posters who have said it is cheaper to produce in China than in America are correct. So let's change that. I propose we put a tariff on everything made outside our borders so if it costs 1$ to make in China and costs 3$ to make here then we charge the company 2 dollars the moment it hits our borders. Oh and corporate tax rates need to stay where they are at, but will actually be charged from now on at the full 35%. However, if you make come back to America and make jobs here then I'm fine with give you a nice break. It's time to end this neo-liberal free trade and start taking care of our workers.
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That won't work. Tariff's simple cause trade wars. It's not worth it. I've covered this before with no comments from anyone but I'll do it again. What we do is charge different rates based upon where the product you sell originates from. Now these are simply made up numbers for an example. I have no idea what the actual numbers would have to be.

If you make and sell an item that was made in the U.S. you pay a 23% tax rate. If you sell a product made in say China, you pay 33%. That combined with a willingness from employee's and employers to work together to bring costs down would make the U.S. ultra-competitive. It's not this simple either but it's a start to the discussion.

This is basically what Obama campaigned on but so far has tossed aside.
 
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U.S. Socialist. said:
Of course I'm not free trade. Neither are a lot of people on the Left, however. Most of the rich people are creating jobs and writing checks for people in China and other foreign countries, so your argument does not hold water. As for my age it is not at all relevant to the issue unless you are one of those people who thinks being young makes you naive or ignorant. In which case I really don't care what you think, because age does not equal maturity. I know the argument though, I've heard it from a republican congressman it goes soemthing like "young people just vote feelings when they get out in the real world they'll be conservatives. Despite all the liberals and other leftists out in the "real world."
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In a sense age does matter, and your young and a idealist like all or at least most young people. That said we need idealist and we need our young people and yes your vote counts. Now in regards to jobs going overseas, it because of our government policies that currently are in place and you are ignoring this side of the issue. You first must address this because currently we still live in a republic under government constrained by a constitution. Now whoever it maybe that comes to this country past and present has the absolute right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness(property), without to much hindrance from our democratic form of government. No one has a governmental right to be given without earning the right to wealth, job security and good health, this my friend is strictly up to you to maintain without hindrance from our government.


Now you have no right (actually you do have the right and this is why youngsters aren't taken seriously)to assume and take over the moral high ground opposed to another and claim that all who have benefited more than others that they are vile and evil. Most CEO's and corporation just didn't appear out of thin air and became multi-million/billion dollar companies. This was usually done through hard work, sacrifice, sh!tload a risk to monies and investments, time etc. Now you want these companies to bend over backwards in a country unfriendly to business(currently), for the competition come back make everyone a millionaire and all will be well. One thing you forgot, this is a world economy now whether we participate or not, and in short if we don't compete then our competition on the world market will bury us in short order. After this is done then you will find out what misery and destitution really is, yet the wealthy will get on their jets and fly to another rich country.
 
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deltabtry said:
In a sense age does matter, and your young and a idealist like all or at least most young people. That said we need idealist and we need our young people and yes your vote counts. Now in regards to jobs going overseas, it because of our government policies that currently are in place and you are ignoring this side of the issue. You first must address this because currently we still live in a republic under government constrained by a constitution. Now whoever it maybe that comes to this country past and present has the absolute right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness(property), without to much hindrance from our democratic form of government. No one has a governmental right to be given without earning the right to wealth, job security and good health, this my friend is strictly up to you to maintain without hindrance from our government.


Now you have no right (actually you do have the right and this is why youngsters aren't taken seriously)to assume and take over the moral high ground opposed to another and claim that all who have benefited more than others that they are vile and evil. Most CEO's and corporation just didn't appear out of thin air and became multi-million/billion dollar companies. This was usually done through hard work, sacrifice, sh!tload a risk to monies and investments, time etc. Now you want these companies to bend over backwards in a country unfriendly to business(currently), for the competition come back make everyone a millionaire and all will be well. One thing you forgot, this is a world economy now whether we participate or not, and in short if we don't compete then our competition on the world market will bury us in short order. After this is done then you will find out what misery and destitution really is, yet the wealthy will get on their jets and fly to another rich country.
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Tell me how are our government polices forcing business to ship jobs overseas? Is it because we regulate them to some extend to provide protection for those who work there and to protect the environment? Is it because our workers demand a decent pay check and won't accept 10 cents an hour? Let me ask this, do you believe that American workers need to accept the conditions of Chinese workers in order to be competitive in a global market?
 
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