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Thread: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Dem's want to raise taxes on people making over 250K a year, then they call this a millionairs tax to cloud the truth.Fuzzy math anyone?
    Yup, you're fuzzy. We are an example. Our highest income for the two of us, including investments, was about 250K. Often about half. Never paid a lot of tax. We are millionaires. What your problem is that you are equating income with wealth. If you have an income of 250K in about ten years you should be a millionaire. 500K should take about 3 years if you have no significant savings to start.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 07-20-11 at 10:25 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, i in 7 are below the poverty line with many more close to the edge. So you are suggesting we push the lower working class over the edge we can continue the $58,000 tax breaks for those at the top whose incomes have been climbing greatly while everyone else suffers? Is that your plan?
    Then you obviously feel that everyone above the poverty line should pay federal income taxes. Is that your plan ???

    If so, then we agree.

    Your continued droning about 1 in 7 below the poverty line is tiresome. Most of those below the poverty line in this country would be considered very well off in many others. Most below the poverty line here have a house full of electronic gadgets including cable tv, cell phones, and internet service.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    ... Also, quite frankly, measuring poverty solely on the basis of claimed income is ridiculous. My boyfriend's sister is below the poverty level but she lives at home (by choice), has no bills, and blows her money on toys and trinkets. She's hardly suffering for anything, yet she's one of those "1 in 7" and I'm willing to be many of those live fairly comfortably.

    Shallow statistics serve nobody.
    So your boyfriend’s sister is a 'dependent' living off the income of her parents. That is a personal relationship that you want to do something about? You want to make it more just? Like you, in my view she is not below the poverty level; but, she is like a wife, with a part time job, of a man making 70K. What are you going to do about that? How are you going to count it? Is no one actually living below the poverty level?

  4. #54
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    So your boyfriend’s sister is a 'dependent' living off the income of her parents. That is a personal relationship that you want to do something about? You want to make it more just? Like you, in my view she is not below the poverty level; but, she is like a wife, with a part time job, of a man making 70K. What are you going to do about that? How are you going to count it? Is no one actually living below the poverty level?
    She's 23, hardly a "dependent". She actively chooses to live how she does. My point was, using JUST INCOME as a measure of poverty misses the boat. It's inaccurate to classify poverty in such a way because it will include those not actually living in poverty and thereby skew the numbers. There are people living in poverty, and I don't deny that. What I'm proposing is that 1 in 7 is a little high based on a flawed manner of assessment. I would think it is closer to 1 in 5 or maybe 1 in 5.5.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How can you predict what the Democrats and GOP will finally agree on? How do you know they will not provide $3 of spending for every $1 of revenue increase? As far as I have been able to determine, there is no agreed upon plan yet.
    I'm going with what Obama's been proposing, which has been IMMEDIETE tax increases on people for the indefinite future and yet backloads the vast majority of cuts to 10 years from now that are contingent on the various actions he lays down actually occuring multiple years down the line under different congresses and Presidents. That's hardly an "equal" approach regardless of the amount of spending cuts compared to revenue increases.

    Would you say its an equal deal if I said you give me $1000 today and I'll pay you back $3000 dollars over the next 12 years pay $50 a year the first 10 years and $2500 over the last 2 years if I still remember that time, still can find you, and have the money? I mean, I'm saying I'll give you $3 for every $1 you give me

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Nobody is proposing raising taxes on those at or near poverty. The only proposed tax increases being considered by the legislature are against the "rich". NOT taxing the rich at a higher rate does not push anybody over the "edge of poverty". Also, quite frankly, measuring poverty solely on the basis of claimed income is ridiculous. My boyfriend's sister is below the poverty level but she lives at home (by choice), has no bills, and blows her money on toys and trinkets. She's hardly suffering for anything, yet she's one of those "1 in 7" and I'm willing to be many of those live fairly comfortably. They may not be able to rock designer duds, but the vast majority of them are hardly suffering.

    Shallow statistics serve nobody.
    Your bf's sister is not included in the "1 in 7". The calculations looks at the income of the entire household and how many people that income supports, combined with a number of other factors like rent (which she does not pay)

    Mistating the statistics serves nobody
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There have been 19 other polls since January that all say the same thing:


    19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit
    If all that were accurate, the Dems would have raised taxes, when they owned Congress.

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If all that were accurate, the Dems would have raised taxes, when they owned Congress.
    Why? The majority supports medical marijuana, and the dems are passing that. And the dems in Congress cut taxes. Maybe you forgot about that
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm going with what Obama's been proposing, which has been IMMEDIETE tax increases on people for the indefinite future and yet backloads the vast majority of cuts to 10 years from now that are contingent on the various actions he lays down actually occuring multiple years down the line under different congresses and Presidents. That's hardly an "equal" approach regardless of the amount of spending cuts compared to revenue increases.

    Would you say its an equal deal if I said you give me $1000 today and I'll pay you back $3000 dollars over the next 12 years pay $50 a year the first 10 years and $2500 over the last 2 years if I still remember that time, still can find you, and have the money? I mean, I'm saying I'll give you $3 for every $1 you give me
    I've seen you make this claim before, so now is a good time to ask where you get this from. I have reviewed the president's deficit reduction framework, and cannot find a reference to immediate tax increases.

    Here is what it says about tax reform:

    "He believes we cannot afford to make our deficit problem worse by extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

    He also supports efforts to build on the Fiscal Commission’s goal of reducing tax expenditures so that there is enough savings to both lower rates and lower the deficit. Reform should be designed to ask more of those who can afford it while protecting the middle class and promoting economic growth.

    In addition, as he explained in the State of the Union, the President is continuing his effort to reform our outdated corporate tax code to enhance our economic competitiveness and encourage investment in the United States. By eliminating loopholes, reducing distortions and leveling the playing field in our corporate tax code, we can use the savings to lower the corporate tax rate for the first time in 25 years without adding to the deficit."


    FACT SHEET: The President's Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility | The White House
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, i in 7 are below the poverty line with many more close to the edge. So you are suggesting we push the lower working class over the edge we can continue the $58,000 tax breaks for those at the top whose incomes have been climbing greatly while everyone else suffers? Is that your plan?
    I have a better idea. We could stop wasting money on such crap as training poor people to perform non-existant green jobs and after all that waste is taken care of, then we can see if there is still a need to raise taxes.

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