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Thread: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    The government spending more likely reduced the amount the economy grew. When the government takes a dollar from a productive person they take their cut (a bit like the mob) before giving 80 cents of it to someone who is unproductive.
    I really cannot agree that crowding out occurred even during the Bush years in which we ran a deficit, but had very low levels of unemployment. Reason being, the current account allowed a great deal of foreign direct investment to flow into the United States, greater than the amount required to fund the deficit (not saying the CA inflow does fund the deficit). Accordingly, firms had little issue obtaining credit during those years.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I really cannot agree that crowding out occurred even during the Bush years in which we ran a deficit, but had very low levels of unemployment. Reason being, the current account allowed a great deal of foreign direct investment to flow into the United States, greater than the amount required to fund the deficit (not saying the CA inflow does fund the deficit). Accordingly, firms had little issue obtaining credit during those years.

    Quite true

    Crowding out was not an issue during the last 20 years in general, especially not for the period of time after 1999. If crowding out was an issue interest rates would have been far higher then they were during that period of time
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Perhaps the difference is in the borrowing and in the printing and not so much in the collection.
    Once again, you change your argument when proven wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I really cannot agree that crowding out occurred even during the Bush years in which we ran a deficit, but had very low levels of unemployment. Reason being, the current account allowed a great deal of foreign direct investment to flow into the United States, greater than the amount required to fund the deficit (not saying the CA inflow does fund the deficit). Accordingly, firms had little issue obtaining credit during those years.
    To late. MrV has already abandoned that argument in post #540. Even he can't defend his own ridiculous arguments
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Once again, you change your argument when proven wrong
    Awesome. What is the point?

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are going to believe what you want to believe no matter how wrong you are. Please feel free to put the Bush actual numbers vs. the Obama numbers. stop buying what the media tells you as they make you look and sound foolish. Too many people have a lot invested in their Bush Derangement Syndrome so you fit into that category. We are now paying for that mental condition.

    Obama economic results in 2011, .4% GDP and 1% GDP growth in 2011, 25+ million unemployed or under employed Americans in 2011, 4 trillion added to the debt in less than 3 years, and a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. Rising Misery index 7.83 to 12.67. First President in U.S. History to have our credit downgraded on his watch! 38-41% JAR and well over 50-55% disapproval ratings.
    Damage the house (2) (9/18/2011)

    Blame others for the mess they had made.

    Normally, president and his administration have annual revenue income, like a salary income for a family. He spends it for mortgage and other expenditure. They used to overspend the income, then they borrow the money by issuing bond.

    But Bush damaged the house with a leaking roof and big hole on wall. (Housing bubble and financial crisis)

    Obama not only has to pay monthly mortgage, but also must change the roof and repair the wall. That repair cost is much more than the normal monthly mortgage. The income remains the same. (salary unchanged or decreased) Expense increase drammatically. (save the firms too big to fall, help the unemployed people, help the drowned home owners....) That become a huge increase of national debt. Who should be responsible for that repair money?

    Damage the house is easy. To repair it cost much. Republicans attacked Obama for the mess their own president (Bush) had made.

    The fact is Bush inherited a surplus from Clinton, he left a deficit for Obama. Worse, he left a big financial crisis to Obama. Now they accuse Obama because he spend a lot of money to repair the roof. You know, to repair a roof costs more than to pay monthly mortgage.

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by katsung47 View Post
    Damage the house (2) (9/18/2011)

    Blame others for the mess they had made.

    Normally, president and his administration have annual revenue income, like a salary income for a family. He spends it for mortgage and other expenditure. They used to overspend the income, then they borrow the money by issuing bond.

    But Bush damaged the house with a leaking roof and big hole on wall. (Housing bubble and financial crisis)

    Obama not only has to pay monthly mortgage, but also must change the roof and repair the wall. That repair cost is much more than the normal monthly mortgage. The income remains the same. (salary unchanged or decreased) Expense increase drammatically. (save the firms too big to fall, help the unemployed people, help the drowned home owners....) That become a huge increase of national debt. Who should be responsible for that repair money?

    Damage the house is easy. To repair it cost much. Republicans attacked Obama for the mess their own president (Bush) had made.

    The fact is Bush inherited a surplus from Clinton, he left a deficit for Obama. Worse, he left a big financial crisis to Obama. Now they accuse Obama because he spend a lot of money to repair the roof. You know, to repair a roof costs more than to pay monthly mortgage.
    If Bush inherited a surplus why doesn't the Treasury Dept show that surplus? They don't show a surplus as the debt went up every year under Clinton because there wasn't a surplus, there was a PROJECTED surplus which apparently you cannot comprehend. Deficits aren't left to income Presidents, they are created by the outgoing and income President. Obama's department heads spent the Bush budget after January 21, 2009 so how did Bush create a deficit from October 1, 2008 to January 20, 2009?

    Your love for Clinton is admirable but what does that have to do with the thread topic. Deficits are yearly and debt cumulative. Clinton took office with a 4.4 trillion debt and left with it at 5.7 trillion so show me the surplus. Bush took office with a 5.7 trillion debt and left it at 10.6 trillion. Today it is 14.6 trillion

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    You play it in a tricky way. To seperate it to other tems such like Project surplus.... .

    If you earn $1,100 a year and you spend $1,000, you have $100 surplus. That's common sense. At the same time, if you also inherits a debt of $4,400 so you have to pay a 3% interest on it, that's $132, if you add them together, then you have a $32 deficit. Should Clinton be responsible for that $4,400 debt and interest?

    But with it you say he didn't earn more. That's a nonsense. When we say Clinton had a surplus, that's normal term we use to judge each presidency fiscal year. You now want to judge it by national debt, it's another standard to deal with Clinton. It doesn't mean Clinton hadn't had surplus in 2008,2009 and 2010.

    If you judge Bush with same standard, he had none surplus. That's why you push out different term to confuse people.

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by katsung47 View Post
    You play it in a tricky way. To seperate it to other tems such like Project surplus.... .

    If you earn $1,100 a year and you spend $1,000, you have $100 surplus. That's common sense. At the same time, if you also inherits a debt of $4,400 so you have to pay a 3% interest on it, that's $132, if you add them together, then you have a $32 deficit. Should Clinton be responsible for that $4,400 debt and interest?

    But with it you say he didn't earn more. That's a nonsense. When we say Clinton had a surplus, that's normal term we use to judge each presidency fiscal year. You now want to judge it by national debt, it's another standard to deal with Clinton. It doesn't mean Clinton hadn't had surplus in 2008,2009 and 2010.

    If you judge Bush with same standard, he had none surplus. That's why you push out different term to confuse people.
    In addition of you take money out of one account and put it into another replacing it with an IOU, in the liberal world that gives one account a surplus. What is it about liberalism that doesn't seem to understand that deficits are yearly and debt is cumulative. Clinton did NOT have a surplus by any standard Clinton did not have a surplus as the Treasury shows yet for some reason you and others cannot seem to understand that.

    Yearly deficits are made up of budget and intergovt. holding(SS, Medicare, and other govt. long term responsibilities. What Clinton had was a budget surplus but an intergovt. holding deficit which did not make for a net surplus. He got the budget surplus by using SS funds from intergovt. holdings leaving a deficit in that acccount.

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    In addition of you take money out of one account and put it into another replacing it with an IOU, in the liberal world that gives one account a surplus.
    That was actually how the Republican legislature "balanced the budget" in Minnesota.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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