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Thread: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

  1. #391
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I guess you think that helping Stalin was not immoral.

    And the point is that the Kochs money is made with govt handouts
    You should actually learn more about what you are talking about before you start spouting nonsense........

    Temporarily forced out of business in the United States, they turned to other markets, including the Soviet Union, where Winkler-Koch built 15 cracking units between 1929 and 1932. During this time, Koch came to despise communism and Joseph Stalin's regime. In his 1960 book, A Business Man Looks at Communism, Koch wrote that he found the USSR to be "a land of hunger, misery, and terror." According to Charles G. Koch, "Virtually every engineer he worked with [there] was purged."
    Koch Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    With every post you make, you look more absurd.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  2. #392
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    As I said, and virtually everyone would agee, that selling products to the government is not handouts. As to selling to Stalin, let's assume this were true. Charles Koch did not seel to Stalin. Are you saying that the "sins" of the father fall to the sons? If that is your belief, are the children of Ted Kennedy killers of women?
    I have posted many examples of the Kochs receiving govt handouts. You can only argue about one. Obviously, even you can't refute the other examples, so just as obviously, my claim is true

    WRT the fathers activities, that's where the Koch bros got their money to start with; from their father. Receiving an inheritance is not work.

    This is the 2nd instance, in just a short time, where you have misconstrued my argument. First, you argued as if I was saying they made money by committing crimes (which actually is true, but I wasn't making that point) when my point was that they hadn't earned the money, they just received govt handouts. Now, you're acting as if I had said "the sins of the father fall to the sons". Again, I was just making the point that they receive govt handouts.

    Will you ever address the point I am actually making, or will you continue to put up straw men?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #393
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And I suggest you do the same. I've been saying, and providing documentation for, that the Kochs' are the recipients of govt handouts. Receiving a check from the govt is not work. Receiving an inheritance is not work
    So every company that provides goods and services to the government is receiving a handout ??????????

    Please come and say that to the many contractors I work with that are working in the hot sun on federal government contracts. They would love to have a private meeting with you to discuss your accusations.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  4. #394
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I don't believe that I ever denied that Koch made money off the government. Could you show where I did? You own nothing, but silliness.
    No, what you did was misconstrue my argument, more than once, that the govt received govt handouts into accusations of illegality, and a claim that the sins of the father should be visited on their sons. All along, you've been disagreeing with me, and now, you're acting as if its' OK that they made money from their handouts, and not earning the money
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #395
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Sure it is. In addition, you have ignored the other proof I have posted about their recieving govt handouts. Even if you don't think doing business with the govt (at inflated prices) is an example of govt handouts, using govt land at below market price is. Taking natural resources off govt land at below market prices (for pennies on the dollar) is. Receiving subsidies (which even Koch Industries admits it does) is.
    As I have said previously, if there is any fault to be assessed by any of these activities, it is the fault of the government and not Koch Industries. I am surprised that a big government person, such as yourself, would want to blame the government so much.

  6. #396
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    This may be true, but if it were true, it would be yet another problem with the Federal Government and not Koch Industries.
    And again, you misconstrue the argument in order to disagree. Regardless of whose fault it is, the fact remains that their wealth is the result of govt handouts, and not their hard work

    That makes three times. Will you ever address the point I'm actually making, or will you continue with the straw men?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #397
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You should actually learn more about what you are talking about before you start spouting nonsense........



    Koch Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    With every post you make, you look more absurd.
    Did you read what you just posted? It explains how their daddy made money, which the sons later inherited. This just bolsters my point because they didn't work for the money they received from the father; they inherited it.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #398
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    So every company that provides goods and services to the government is receiving a handout ??????????

    Please come and say that to the many contractors I work with that are working in the hot sun on federal government contracts. They would love to have a private meeting with you to discuss your accusations.
    Yes, when the govt buys stuff, the are distorting the market by increasing demand for that product, which increases the price for that product. The seller makes more money on what it sells to the govt *and* receives more money for the same product when it sell to buyers other than the govt. It's basically a price support mechanism, not a free market one.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #399
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Did you read what you just posted? It explains how their daddy made money, which the sons later inherited. This just bolsters my point because they didn't work for the money they received from the father; they inherited it.
    Stawman....... post a link of anyone denying they inherited the original small company from their father.

    That was not the point of my post and you know it. You claimed that Koch was somehow in bed with Stalin. In actuality, as I've proven, he hated him.

    Your concession is noted.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  10. #400
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    As I have said previously, if there is any fault to be assessed by any of these activities, it is the fault of the government and not Koch Industries. I am surprised that a big government person, such as yourself, would want to blame the government so much.
    It takes two to make a business transaction. And as I said before, you are once again creating a straw man. It doesn't matter who is at fault. It still shows that the Kochs are the recipients of govt largesse.

    And now, you have added another straw man that I support all govt activities. That makes five straw men
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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