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Thread: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

  1. #31
    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Yes, I can honestly argue that the Democrats' position is much closer to the position of the middle. You acknowledge that a majority support both tax increases and spending cuts. That's what Democrats are offering.
    Yes, a majority support some kind of tax increases. However at the same time, more people support equal to no tax increases than they do plans that are unequal in favor of Taxes or only rely on taxes.

    Neither the primary Republican Plan (no tax increases) NOR the Democratic Plan (unequal application with immediete taxes and backloaded cuts) have majority approval nor do either one of them reach the fat middle that would like equal parts of both. However, of the two, the Republican plan has the same, if not larger support than the Democrats does. The poll I saw had 20% of the public okay with no tax incrases where as only 11% of the public agreed with an unequal format that leans more heavily on taxes or doing only taxes.

    Both the Republican plan AND the Democrat plan are far out of the mainstream. Simply because the Democrats does include taxes doesn't make it any more mainstream than the Republicans. Neither plan touches the fat 32% middle that wants it equally between the two, and the Democrats plan absolutely doesn't go into the next 30% which wants primarily spending focus.

    If anything, the Republicans could make a larger claim for being towards the middle of what people want since, if we place "equal tax and cuts) in the middle....there is a far larger group (50%) above that threshold than below (11%), meaning a far larger group leaning towards the Republican side on this, not the Democrat side.



    However, the tax increases go into effect immedietely, the spending cuts take place over a decades worth of time and are primarily back loaded. That is not "equal". If they were truly equal, or more in favor of cuts than taxes, then the 3 to 1 cut would be coming at hte same time as the taxes. Its not, because the Democrats solution is far more balanced to the tax side with it effecting people immedietely where as spending cuts are contingent upon mulitple congresses and presidents down the road keeping to that as Barack O'Snyder decided to do an Ablert Haynesworth type contract with the numbers and backloaded everything 10 years down the line.
    I disagree. The Democrats' plan does touch the fat 32% because they're willing to do both, which is what the fat 32% wants. We can argue over the amounts and time frame, but those are the facts. The Republican plan does not even consider tax increases of any kind. No loophole closures. Nothing on taxes. The Democrats are willing to do both. Republicans will only agree to what they want - only spending cuts. Therefore, Democrats are closer to the views of the majority of Americans.


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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    You're the one who looked a fool. I merely pointed out how wrong you were. Carry on, though.
    And I pointed out how you're just towing the conservative line - no taxes. You did say, "maybe" once the economy stabilizes, but that's hardly an argument in support of raising taxes. We've heard that argument before. Then when the economy is good, nope can't raise taxes.


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    Educator Sgt Meowenstein's Avatar
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Sensible comments to Sgt. are a waste of time. He is a hyperpartisan hack that vomits the democratic talking point of the day without bothering to determine what anyone else says on the subject.
    Hey, boy, who pulled your string?


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And I pointed out how you're just towing the conservative line - no taxes. You did say, "maybe" once the economy stabilizes, but that's hardly an argument in support of raising taxes. We've heard that argument before. Then when the economy is good, nope can't raise taxes.
    Again, you're relying on tired stereotypes to make a value judgment against something I said. That is, you're blatantly misinterpreting what I said and ignoring what doesn't fit your warped view in order to continue on with irrelevant, unproductive bias. Your attitude is part of the problem, not the solution.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    You ought to know this by now; CBS oversamples their polls with Dems.

    From the poll :
    unweighted weighted
    Total Respondents 810
    Total Republicans 214 193 (24%)
    Total Democrats 272 282 (35%)
    Total Independents 324 335 (41%)
    Here you go, some polling details. What was your problem?

    Should the Debt Ceiling be Raised?
    ____Republicans____Democrats____Independents___Tea Party
    ____Now__6/2011___Now 6/2011__Now 6/2011___Now__6/2011
    Yes__33% __16%____61%__35%___40%___21%___ 23%__16%

    This is even more impressive isn't it?

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Again, you're relying on tired stereotypes to make a value judgment against something I said. That is, you're blatantly misinterpreting what I said and ignoring what doesn't fit your warped view in order to continue on with irrelevant, unproductive bias. Your attitude is part of the problem, not the solution.


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    You're just frustrated that I don't fit into your stupid little mold, and even more upset that when you try to make me fit the mold I point out your little game. It's okay though, there's no shame in being wrong.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    And I pointed out how you're just towing the conservative line - no taxes. You did say, "maybe" once the economy stabilizes, but that's hardly an argument in support of raising taxes. We've heard that argument before. Then when the economy is good, nope can't raise taxes.
    And Dems are saying they will cut spending "maybe" when they feel like it.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    I'm wondering how much of the debt problem can be fixed by raising tax rates. The Democrat language suggests half the problem is taxes and half is spending.

    How much more revenue could have theoretically been raised in 2011? Enough to cut our deficit in half? Is there that much money sitting there for the taking that wouldn't create any economic ripples not to affect the economy and result in insignificant revenue gains?

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I'm wondering how much of the debt problem can be fixed by raising tax rates. The Democrat language suggests half the problem is taxes and half is spending.

    How much more revenue could have theoretically been raised in 2011? Enough to cut our deficit in half? Is there that much money sitting there for the taking that wouldn't create any economic ripples not to affect the economy and result in insignificant revenue gains?
    That's really what it comes down to. If you collect more in taxes that money is coming from somewhere. Is it money that would have been spent on consumerism? Invested in companies? Saved to generate financial stability or a "rainy day" fund of some sort? And then, how much of government spending results in a net-gain economically? Or an even wash? And how much doesn't help us economically at all? Does a tax increase to slow our federal debt accumulation have a better long term benefit than a spending cut of equal measure?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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