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Thread: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    I can see tax increases once the economy picks back up, but I think increasing anybody's obligation right now is a bad idea. At the same time, I think we should get rid of loopholes, simplify the tax code, and completely restructure the tax system...and we should do it now. Perhaps once that is done there would be no need for an "increase".
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Dem's want to raise taxes on people making over 250K a year, then they call this a millionairs tax to cloud the truth.Fuzzy math anyone?

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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I can see tax increases once the economy picks back up, but I think increasing anybody's obligation right now is a bad idea. At the same time, I think we should get rid of loopholes, simplify the tax code, and completely restructure the tax system...and we should do it now. Perhaps once that is done there would be no need for an "increase".
    Ah yes, the conservative argument. When we had a surplus, we had to cut taxes because the gov't had too much money. Now that we're in the midst of a crap economy - partly do to those tax cuts - we can't raise taxes because the economy is bad. So, when is it ok to raise taxes?


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Dem's want to raise taxes on people making over 250K a year, then they call this a millionairs tax to cloud the truth.Fuzzy math anyone?
    SO then you support raising taxes on those earning over 1 million? Great idea. Maybe you can convince the GOP to go for that.


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    For some reason the poll's pdf won't load for me. However, if it follows the path other polls have been going its correct...to a point.

    The Majority of American's favor allowing some kind of tax increase. In general, polls have been coming out with about 20% wanting no tax increases at all and just under 10% wanting only tax increases. So you have about 70% in the juicy middle.

    Here's the issue though of course...

    The vast majority of support for the inclusion of taxes is in the middle where people want an equal use of tax hikes and spending cuts. You ask when the Republicans will get on board? The same question can be asked of the Democrats.

    The Democrats are not suggesting an equal use of tax hikes or spending cuts. They are suggesting tax hikes that happen immediately, effect people immediately, go into their full effect on day one. They are also suggesting spending cuts that are stretched over more than a decade and are severely back loaded in regards to savings, making a guarantee those savings will even come tenuous at best.


    That is not an equal approach of taxes and spending, that is an approach that is primarily focused on tax hikes that has spending cuts included in it. In every poll I’ve seen that approach combined with “tax only” has relatively the same support as the notion of doing JUST spending cuts.

    So while you can point to the fact that the majority of Americans are in favor of some form of tax increase, what you can’t do honestly or truthfully is suggest that somehow the Democratic suggestion of what to do is anywhere closer to the middle or the majority of what America wants than the Republicans. They’re both sitting at near opposite ends, with the Democrats slightly farther away from their extreme end but at the same time having their end not be as large as the Republicans in terms of support.
    Yes, I can honestly argue that the Democrats' position is much closer to the position of the middle. You acknowledge that a majority support both tax increases and spending cuts. That's what Democrats are offering. Republicans won't even consider tax increases. Republicans aren't even on the same page, not even in the same book as a majority of Americans.

    To your other point, you're right, Democrats aren't arguing for an equal amount of tax increases and spending cuts. Obama has offered 3 dollars in spending cuts to 1 dollar in tax increases. Not even close to equal.

    You'd think Republicans would snatch up that deal of the century in a heartbeat. But they can't because they've painted themselves into a corner with the Tea Party and Grover Norquist.


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Ah yes, the conservative argument. When we had a surplus, we had to cut taxes because the gov't had too much money. Now that we're in the midst of a crap economy - partly do to those tax cuts - we can't raise taxes because the economy is bad. So, when is it ok to raise taxes?
    You won't find any instance of me claiming that I was in favor of or supportive of the "Bush tax cuts", first of all. Secondly, I did not say we shouldn't raise taxes ever, at all, for any reason. I clearly said that it is bad to raise them in a recession. I did not say it was always bad to raise them. I also clearly said we should remove loopholes and simplify the system.

    But sure, by all means, look at my party identification and make huge leaps for the sake of...what, exactly? What did that hacky little post accomplish for you? Especially when you just made it obvious that you neither read nor understood my post, but instead chose to utilize a stereotypical party attack innacurately and without cause.
    Last edited by tessaesque; 07-19-11 at 11:49 AM.
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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    You won't find any instant of me claiming that I was in favor of or supportive of the "Bush tax cuts", first of all. Secondly, I did not say we shouldn't raise taxes ever, at all, for any reason. I clearly said that it is bad to raise them in a recession. I did not say it was always bad to raise them. I also clearly said we should remove loopholes and simplify the system.

    But sure, by all means, look at my party identification and make huge leaps for the sake of...what, exactly? What did that hacky little post accomplish for you? Especially when you just made it obvious that you neither read nor understood my post, but instead chose to utilize a stereotypical party attack innacurately and without cause.


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Sensible comments to Sgt. are a waste of time. He is a hyperpartisan hack that vomits the democratic talking point of the day without bothering to determine what anyone else says on the subject.
    Last edited by Gill; 07-19-11 at 11:52 AM.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    You're the one who looked a fool. I merely pointed out how wrong you were. Carry on, though.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Poll: Debt ceiling deal should include cuts and tax increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    Yes, I can honestly argue that the Democrats' position is much closer to the position of the middle. You acknowledge that a majority support both tax increases and spending cuts. That's what Democrats are offering.
    Yes, a majority support some kind of tax increases. However at the same time, more people support equal to no tax increases than they do plans that are unequal in favor of Taxes or only rely on taxes.

    Neither the primary Republican Plan (no tax increases) NOR the Democratic Plan (unequal application with immediete taxes and backloaded cuts) have majority approval nor do either one of them reach the fat middle that would like equal parts of both. However, of the two, the Republican plan has the same, if not larger support than the Democrats does. The poll I saw had 20% of the public okay with no tax incrases where as only 11% of the public agreed with an unequal format that leans more heavily on taxes or doing only taxes.

    Both the Republican plan AND the Democrat plan are far out of the mainstream. Simply because the Democrats does include taxes doesn't make it any more mainstream than the Republicans. Neither plan touches the fat 32% middle that wants it equally between the two, and the Democrats plan absolutely doesn't go into the next 30% which wants primarily spending focus.

    If anything, the Republicans could make a larger claim for being towards the middle of what people want since, if we place "equal tax and cuts) in the middle....there is a far larger group (50%) above that threshold than below (11%), meaning a far larger group leaning towards the Republican side on this, not the Democrat side.

    To your other point, you're right, Democrats aren't arguing for an equal amount of tax increases and spending cuts. Obama has offered 3 dollars in spending cuts to 1 dollar in tax increases. Not even close to equal.
    However, the tax increases go into effect immedietely, the spending cuts take place over a decades worth of time and are primarily back loaded. That is not "equal". If they were truly equal, or more in favor of cuts than taxes, then the 3 to 1 cut would be coming at hte same time as the taxes. Its not, because the Democrats solution is far more balanced to the tax side with it effecting people immedietely where as spending cuts are contingent upon mulitple congresses and presidents down the road keeping to that as Barack O'Snyder decided to do an Ablert Haynesworth type contract with the numbers and backloaded everything 10 years down the line.

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