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Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

Ockham said:
Just like I'm a registered Democrat. :shrug:
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He's against high taxes, seems Conservative to me. Are you, as a registered Democrat, for higher taxes?
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
He's against high taxes, seems Conservative to me. Are you, as a registered Democrat, for higher taxes?
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Does that mean I can't open a third party here in NJ, pay my fee and call it the Tea Party? No it doesn't.... what a person registers / labels themself to be and what / who they actually are, doesn't always reflect the truth. Second fallacy - because a person is against taxes does not mean their Conservative.
 
Ockham said:
Doesn't change the math.
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Of course it does. Let's compare Bush, $4.9T, with Reagan, $1.7T. Comparing those two without inflation is comparing 1988 dollars with 2008 dollars. Add inflation and the math most certainly does change.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Of course it does. Let's compare Bush, $4.9T, with Reagan, $1.7T. Comparing those two without inflation is comparing 1988 dollars with 2008 dollars. Add inflation and the math most certainly does change.
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You failed to take that into account. How is that my problem?
 
Ockham said:
Does that mean I can't open a third party here in NJ, pay my fee and call it the Tea Party? No it doesn't.... what a person registers / labels themself to be and what / who they actually are, doesn't always reflect the truth.
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But that evades the whole point of how come members of the Tea Party run as members of the Republican Party and not as members of the Tea party? You first tried to avoid answering with some deflection about how theTea Party isn't a registered political party. But I showed you it is in some places; and there is no reason it can't be nationally.

Ockham said:
Second fallacy - because a person is against taxes does not mean their Conservative.
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True, but then you have no evidence that a registered-Republican, tax-hating, self-described Conservative, isn't a "real Republican."
 
Ockham said:
You failed to take that into account. How is that my problem?
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It's neither your problem nor mine. I'm merely correcting your mistake that adding inflation "doesn't change the math."
 
ElCid said:
Sounds fake, but who cares, anyway? The Sheeple remain dumber than dirt. They believe the last thing they saw on TV, from one moment to the next. They damned sure don't know what's truly good for them. DEFAULT AND CRASH THIS ANIMAL.
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Your utter contempt for the American people is duly noted.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
But that evades the whole point of how come members of the Tea Party run as members of the Republican Party and not as members of the Tea party? You first tried to avoid answering with some deflection about how theTea Party isn't a registered political party. But I showed you it is in some places; and there is no reason it can't be nationally.
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You've shown someone who claims to be something you assume in 2009 registered a 3rd party in Florida via a Politico blog. I'm simply pointing out what someone claims they are and what they actually are do not necessarily jive.

I'll point out you evaded my question as to why socialists don't run on the socialist ticket but run as Democrats.


Sheik Yerbuti said:
True, but then you have no evidence that a registered-Republican, tax-hating, self-described Conservative, isn't a "real Republican."
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Why would I need evidence? And of course it's true.


A Brief History of Blue Dog Democrats - TIME
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
It's neither your problem nor mine. I'm merely correcting your mistake that adding inflation "doesn't change the math."
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They were your numbers... you posted incorrect information - it's your mistake not mine. See, I'll show it to you:

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Obama ............ 25.9%
Bush ............... 34.2%
Clinton ............ 10.7%
GHW Bush ....... 11.1%
Reagan ............ 11.7%
Carter ............... 1.9%
Nixon ................ 2.1%
Johnson ............. 0.3%
Kennedy ............ 0.2%
Eisenhower ........ 0.2%
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Your post... why would you post incorrect information? I don't get it.
 
Ockham said:
You've shown someone who claims to be something you assume in 2009 registered a 3rd party in Florida via a Politico blog. I'm simply pointing out what someone claims they are and what they actually are do not necessarily jive.
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Again, that's a deflection from my original question as to why members of the Tea Party won't run for office as members of the Tea Party. I'll just assume you keep deflecting because you really don't have an answer.

Ockham said:
I'll point out you evaded my question as to why socialists don't run on the socialist ticket but run as Democrats.
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Well I asked you for an example but you never gave one. How do I know there even is such a thing? Name a Democrat in office who is a member of the Socialist Party?

Ockham said:
Why would I need evidence? And of course it's true.

A Brief History of Blue Dog Democrats - TIME
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Well usually, when someone believes something to be true, they base it on something. And btw, Blue Dog Democrats, while Conservative, were still registered Democrats. O'Neal is a Conservative Republican.
 
Ockham said:
They were your numbers... you posted incorrect information - it's your mistake not mine. See, I'll show it to you:



Your post... why would you post incorrect information? I don't get it.
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Hey, why did you leave out the asterisk I put in there, explaining those numbers did not include inflation? How dishonest of you. Tsk, tsk.

:naughty:
 
Ockham said:
Yeah, fiscal sanity, a balanced federal budget... all just KOOKY things!!
No america is hearing the spin from people like yourself who have no idea what the Tea Party is about, but just regurgitates political talking points they have heard. How many tea party meetings have you gone to? How many tea party members have you asked "What are you guys all about? Did you know a lot of people think your radical and racist?" How much valid policy (not political) information have your read on the Tea Party? My guess is 1.) None 2.) None and 3.) None and 4.) None.
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I know exactly what the teaparty is about now...and I know very well what they started out as...I went to 4 local rallys in the beginning and what I saw there were dozens upon dozens of babyboomer working class gungho for what they THOUGHT the teaparty was..before it morphed into lets screw teh working class and give big tax breaks to the rich and corps..

If the teaparty wanted a balanced share the pain approach I would be for them...that is NOT what they want that is not what they have EVER presented all they harp on is screw the working class and take from them to pay the deficit and give it to my buddies...my congressman is starting to realize what hes up against...I got a letter from him today with an entirely different tone and approach the babyboomer gops down here are kicking his ass with negative emails
 
Ockham said:
Doesn't change the math. If Obama's 2 1/2 years are any indication of future performance of his last 1 1/2 years, Obama will be at 33.9% in 4 years compared to 34.2% for 'ol George W. Give Obama another 4 years starting in 2012 and we have a new spend / debt leader that kicks the crap out of 'ol George W.
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Um, President didn't create all that debt, much of it is due to the lost jobs (and tax revenue) that started in the Bush administration.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Again, that's a deflection from my original question as to why members of the Tea Party won't run for office as members of the Tea Party. I'll just assume you keep deflecting because you really don't have an answer.
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Why aren't socialists running on the socialist ticket then? You avoid the question because you don't want to answer.


Sheik Yerbuti said:
Well I asked you for an example but you never gave one. How do I know there even is such a thing? Name a Democrat in office who is a member of the Socialist Party?
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So you still refuse to answer...

Waters, Kucinich, Sanders... take your pick. And before you say they're not socialists, well, according to the DSA (that's Democratic Socialists of America) back in 1998 they were.

Courtesy of the Wayback Machine
Members of the Progressive Caucus

Today for some reason, they don't list Congressional members there anymore. Wonder why? :lamo

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Well usually, when someone believes something to be true, they base it on something. And btw, Blue Dog Democrats, while Conservative, were still registered Democrats. O'Neal is a Conservative Republican.
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I never claimed they were other than Democrats and it would be a safe assumption that since I posted the link, that I would have know they were registered Democrats prior to my cutting and pasting the link. Therefore your earlier statement and assumption that since a person is against taxes they must be Conservative isn't true, and they don't even have to be Republican.

Fred O'Neal... Tampa Bay Florida... founder of the "Taxed Enough Party" (TEA Party) is a Registered Democrat.

Sunshine News said:
The key to consensus, he says, is to focus on "principles and values" from a constitutional foundation.

Fred O'Neal took his Democratic Party membership and founded the nation's first official political tea party, the Florida TEA (Taxed Enough Already) Party.

"I had re-registered Democrat from Republican in 2005, primarily because of how the Iraq War/occupation was going at the time.
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Not Just a GOP Affair, Tea Party Mixes in Democrats | Sunshine State News



Tsk tsk... at least TRY and do a better job at obfuscation than that.

lmao.gif
 
pbrauer said:
Um, President didn't create all that debt, much of it is due to the lost jobs (and tax revenue) that started in the Bush administration.
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Um.. I guess according to you it was little green men from mars that spent all Obama's money while he was golfing then.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Hey, why did you leave out the asterisk I put in there, explaining those numbers did not include inflation? How dishonest of you. Tsk, tsk.

:naughty:
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Why would you post incorrect numbers? You still haven't answered...
 
upsideguy said:
certainly not.... just keep on, keepin' on. I can live with that in 2012.
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Me too. Sometimes principles have to trump politics. :shrug: If that gives Obama another 4 years to destroy this country - maybe it's all for the best.
 
ElCid said:
Sounds fake, but who cares, anyway? The Sheeple remain dumber than dirt. They believe the last thing they saw on TV, from one moment to the next. They damned sure don't know what's truly good for them. DEFAULT AND CRASH THIS ANIMAL.
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I agree with your assessment, given that the Tea Party members are not clear thinkers, but sheepies.

So, to restate: the Tea Baggers remain dumber than dirt. They believe the last thing they saw on TV (Fox), from one moment to the next. They damned sure don't know what's truly good for them (the party they support only is interested in the 1%, and they are not...). DEFAULT AND CRASH THIS ANIMAL.[/QUOTE]... and watch what happens in 2012.... fools.
 
upsideguy said:
I agree with your assessment, given that the Tea Party members are not clear thinkers, but sheepies.

So, to restate: the Tea Baggers remain dumber than dirt. They believe the last thing they saw on TV (Fox), from one moment to the next. They damned sure don't know what's truly good for them (the party they support only is interested in the 1%, and they are not...). DEFAULT AND CRASH THIS ANIMAL.... and watch what happens in 2012.... fools.
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Democrats only know one thing - how to spend like there's no tomorrow. 2012 will have Obama spending this country into slavery to China. They can't help themselves. While demonizing the Tea Party as whatever you last saw on MSNBC (I think you've been channeling Ed ****z or possibly Mancow's talking points), the reality is the Tea Party pushing for fiscal responsibility which flys in the face of spend spend spend progressive liberal hacks. 2012 with Obama killing off this country might be a good thing... perhaps that will see progressive liberalism die a long slow painful death as it so deserves. Best bury decomposing **** instead of having it stink up the place when it all does crash. Progressive dumbasses.
 
Ockham said:
Why aren't socialists running on the socialist ticket then? You avoid the question because you don't want to answer.
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Who says thaty don't? Guess you didn't do your homework, in 2008, they ran Roger Calegro for President. How come the Tea Party won't do that?

Ockham said:
So you still refuse to answer...

Waters, Kucinich, Sanders... take your pick. And before you say they're not socialists, well, according to the DSA (that's Democratic Socialists of America) back in 1998 they were.

Courtesy of the Wayback Machine
Members of the Progressive Caucus

Today for some reason, they don't list Congressional members there anymore. Wonder why? :lamo
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What they are not ... are members of the Socialist Party. The Socialist Party runs candidates from their party. The Tea Party runs candidates as Republicans.


Ockham said:
Therefore your earlier statement and assumption that since a person is against taxes they must be Conservative isn't true, and they don't even have to be Republican.

Fred O'Neal... Tampa Bay Florida... founder of the "Taxed Enough Party" (TEA Party) is a Registered Democrat.



Not Just a GOP Affair, Tea Party Mixes in Democrats | Sunshine State News



Tsk tsk... at least TRY and do a better job at obfuscation than that.

lmao.gif
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Fair enough, he is now a registered Tea Partier and I apologize for getting that wrong. I read he was a registered Republican, but according to the link you posted, he was until he switched in 2005 to the Democrat Party because he was unhappy with the war in Iraq; before switching to the Tea Party in 2009. Still, wrong is wrong and I was wrong to say he "is" a Registered Republican.
 
Ockham said:
Why would you post incorrect numbers? You still haven't answered...
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I didn't post incorrect numbers. I posted debt numbers which appear on the Treasury website which excluded inflation and put a note at the bottom of my chart to that effect. Why do you think the Treasury numbers are wrong?
 
Ockham said:
Um.. I guess according to you it was little green men from mars that spent all Obama's money while he was golfing then.
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That's a dodge.
If the debt was as bad as the conservatives say it is, why oh why, are countries willing to buy it? If you had too much debt, you couldn't get a loan with an interest rate even close to the current ones.
 
pbrauer said:
When will the GOP/Tea Party wise up?



Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
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It would seem the GOP misinterpreted and overplayed their 2010 win in the House. They interpreted need by the people for more jobs as a call for further tax cuts for the rich at the expense of the elderly and the poor. Since the only demograhic the GOP could depend on previously was the elderly, they blew it big time with their proposal to cut SS and Medicare to provide further tax cuts for the wealthy.

Ryan's budget was the turning point, it allowed the voters to see the GOP's true intentions, assuring a big win for the Dems and Obama in 2012.
 
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