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Thread: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it occurs to me though; by this logic, Republicans have already agreed to major tax increases - as they have not insisted on going to the Ryan Plan rates, we can give them credit for "raising" taxes to the current rates.

    so, Republicans have given the President his tax hikes, he has given Republicans their spending cuts, and all is well! right?
    Keep taxes at the current rate is not raising taxes - nice try though. I always love a little

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    They should just draft a bill which raises the debt ceiling and nothing else. No tax increases, no spending cuts, just raise the roof.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Keep taxes at the current rate is not raising taxes - nice try though. I always love a little
    He was intentionally spinning to show the stupidity in claiming you're "cutting" spending by saying you'll stop something that was going to stop anyways.

    He was stating that if you're excepting that logic, than the Republicans could claim to have agreed to cut taxes by choosing not to push something that would've lowered taxes but likely wouldn't have passed anyways.

    Cpwill's logic was a little bad because they're not exactly direct analogs, but the point he was making was that it WAS Spin. He wasn't trying to slip spin by to be sneaky, he was highlighting the idiocy of claiming "savings" for coming up with the idea of turning the pool filter off in winter.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    That's not what he's saying. Let me give an analogy....

    You're talking about the budget right now in the summer with your family. Your finances are hard pressed. You're trying to find ways to save money but at the same time you want to still go out drinking with the guys. So you go to your wife and tell her "Hun, i figured out how to save enough money to let me still go out and drink with my guys. You know that pool we have going with the filter running at all times that runs up our electric bill. Well, I'll save us money by turning it off come the fall and winter. That way we won't be paying for the electricity. We'll save so much money on our bills doing that I'll be able to still go drinking with the guys!"

    In that scenario, you're trying to take something that is already logically going to occur (You're not likely to be running the pool filter all thoruhg fall and winter) and attempting to suggest that said action would be a new way of "saving money" when in reality its money that would not have been spent anyways.

    What cpwill is trying to say is that saying we'll save X amount of dollars by ending the Surge in Afghanistan is a rather hollow number of add to the "savings" because, unless every President for the next 10+ years was going to keep the surge levels going in Afghanistan, that "savings" was inevitable anyways because it'd eventually end.

    If the drawing down of the surge is honeslty one of the ways he's suggesting a "Spending cut" then all Obama is doing is claiming credit for turning the pool filter off in the winter.
    Nice try, however you will notice that the military budget has doubled since President Bush was elected. Also, President Bush never put the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan into his budgets opting to ask Congress to authorize supplemental payments. So in effect Bush was never held accountable for these costs - his deficits always looked better than they should have been. President Obama has fulfilled a campaign by putting these costs into his budget. So President Obama is saying he wants to be held responsible for the costs.

    The rising debt is largely due to lost revenue because of lost jobs and low tax rates.


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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    He was intentionally spinning to show the stupidity in claiming you're "cutting" spending by saying you'll stop something that was going to stop anyways.

    He was stating that if you're excepting that logic, than the Republicans could claim to have agreed to cut taxes by choosing not to push something that would've lowered taxes but likely wouldn't have passed anyways.

    Cpwill's logic was a little bad because they're not exactly direct analogs, but the point he was making was that it WAS Spin. He wasn't trying to slip spin by to be sneaky, he was highlighting the idiocy of claiming "savings" for coming up with the idea of turning the pool filter off in winter.
    Alright, I misunderstood him/clearly lacked reading comprehension. Sorry cpwill.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post

    The rising debt is largely due to lost revenue because of lost jobs and low tax rates.
    You make the point loud and clear.... the issue at hand is there are those people who continue to deny spending is at the root of the problem. Like yourself, they decide to grab onto political talking points and deny facts that show that the U.S. does NOT have a tax problem we have a spending problem - we have a debt problem and so far the answer has been from the Federal Reserve: "Print more money". The continued denial of the spending issue by the hard left progressives is nothing more than a denial of reality. Way to go expressing that point Petey. Excellent job.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    In debt talks, Obama offers Social Security cuts - The Washington Post

    A lot of Democrats are pretty pissed about it. He's offered cuts to social security, medicaid and medicare in exchange for ending tax breaks on the wealthy, but I'm not sure which parts specifically.
    Yeah, that's sort of the problem I find frustrating. In the linked WaPo article there is one line about one spending cut that Obama "might" be proposing. Am seeing a large amount of grandstanding about these big concessions being offered up by the WH and the Democrats. But just ain't seeing anything that even begins to support those claims.....
    Last edited by pragmatic; 07-19-11 at 12:29 PM.


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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Nice try, however you will notice that the military budget has doubled since President Bush was elected.
    Your point? That was bad. It should go down. What does that have to do with Obama claiming to be "saving" money by ending something that would end anyways?

    Also, President Bush never put the costs of Iraq and Afghanistan into his budgets opting to ask Congress to authorize supplemental payments. So in effect Bush was never held accountable for these costs - his deficits always looked better than they should have been.
    Again, bad Bush. What does this have to do with my statement that Obama is attempting to claim credit for "saving" money by stopping something that would've been stopped anyways.

    I know this may shock a liberal who subscribe to their ideology like a zealot fervently praying to their religion but just saying "BUSH DID SOMETHING BAD" is not some kind of universal wild card. Its not some kind of joker that you get to play to make a bunch of worthless cards become a royal flush. Shouting "BUSH BUSH BUSH" isn't an answer, its not debate, its just ideological rambling that appeals to no one but the most devout of followers.

    NOTHING in your post now, or prevoiusly, addressed the notion of claiming "savings" by stopping something that was going to be stopped anyways. All it was is one long diatribe about Bush being bad.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    When have the Democrats ever refused to raised the debt ceiling?
    When has the deficit been this high?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Yeah, that's sort of the problem I find frustrating. In the linked WaPo article there is one line about one spending cut that Obama "might" be proposing. Am seeing a large amount of grandstanding about these big concessions being offered up by the WH and the Democrats. But just ain't seeing anything that even begins to support those claims.....
    If neither Democrats or Republicans denied the reports, I'm going to go ahead and say it's valid. We all know that this is how things get to the public first, so I don't why people are pretending that this is just some unfounded rumor.

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