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Thread: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I never said it doubled as percentage of GDP. Why the hell would it? You think our need for defense increases as a percentage of GDP?
    absolutely. however, defense spending doubling in raw dollars isn't a really accurate depiction. government spending is measured either in constant dollars, or in % of GDP.

    "President Bush Jr. more than doubled military spending during his presidency, from $300 billion in 2000 to $650 billion by the time he left office."
    yawn. except of course that number isn't in constant dollars.

    Not if it is up to the GOP. They didn't even include it in their deficit reductions plan.
    there were indeed DOD cuts in there; though they were wise to minimize those.

    It took 30 years of tax cuts to create the debt, it will take 30 years of a FICA cap increase to fix the problem.
    not only did revenues increase after those tax cuts, revenues as a % of GDP increased, and revenues specifically from the high-earners increased. spending has simply increased faster than revenues have.

    thanks for your opinion!
    no, everyone has a right to their own opinion. you don't get your own numbers, and the numbers are clear. entitlement growth is what drives our debt going forward. Bill Clinton recognizes it. The Bowles-Simpson Commission recognize it. The Medicare/Medicaid Actuaries recognize it. The AARP recognizes it. The CBO recognizes it. Even President Obama agrees you cannot tax your way to paying for Medicare.

    Private health insurance has become just unaffordable as Medicare.
    no. private health insurance as it is currently structured has become more difficult to afford because of Medicare. were I to find myself bereft tomorrow of coverage from my job I would go get an HSA, which is eminently affordable.

    we will have to address the underlying problem, our nations outdated health care system that is the most expensive on the planet.
    i agree we need to address it. specifically, we need to model the rest of our government provision of healthcare after the one program that has been proven to work at both providing care and holding down costs and expenditures - Medicare D.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    absolutely. however, defense spending doubling in raw dollars isn't a really accurate depiction. government spending is measured either in constant dollars, or in % of GDP.
    Perhaps not if your thing is dishonest spin. Please explain how an increased GDP increases the military threat to us?

    So you are suggesting all government spending should increase as the GDP does eh?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #223
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Perhaps not if your thing is dishonest spin. Please explain how an increased GDP increases the military threat to us?
    given that increased GDP means a reduced need for social safety net expenditures, are you sure you would want to travel down that road?

    So you are suggesting all government spending should increase as the GDP does eh?
    that is what baseline spending does. And once we've gotten it back down to sustainable levels, I'm fine freezing it all.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    this stupid game of chicken is something i'll consider when the 2012 elections come around.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    given that increased GDP means a reduced need for social safety net expenditures, are you sure you would want to travel down that road?
    You are the one that brought it up! Its ok if you've change your mind.



    that is what baseline spending does. And once we've gotten it back down to sustainable levels, I'm fine freezing it all.

    So, in your mind, baseline spending increases the military threat against the US????
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-31-11 at 05:32 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You forgot to add the 2 trillion that was taken from SS that still has to be paid back.
    If it were used to fund defense, then it's included on the graph. The now 2.5 trillion isn't forgotton, it's included as part of our 14 trillion national debt.

    We spend almost on military as the rest of the world does combined. Not so with entitlements that has been mostly funded through FICA taxes. We are no where near spending as much on entitlements as the rest of the world combined.
    You got that right, and thank goodness because we wouldn't be the great country that we are.

    This has us at 25th:
    The Biggest Entitlement Spenders In The World

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Am I supposed to believe the Moony Times is an unbiased source and credible?
    You could call Media Matters and ask them what you should do.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post

    The Tea Baggers just increased the Tax Breaks for the wealthiest 2% -- trickle up continues.

    Teabag voters must love having their pockets picked.

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If it were used to fund defense, then it's included on the graph. The now 2.5 trillion isn't forgotton, it's included as part of our 14 trillion national debt.
    You are incorrect. The money was taken from SS revenue receipts and replaced with an IOU based on the full faith and credit of the US. This is in addition to our $14 trillion dollar national debt.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You are incorrect. The money was taken from SS revenue receipts and replaced with an IOU based on the full faith and credit of the US. This is in addition to our $14 trillion dollar national debt.
    That is actually not correct, Catawba as the debt to the so-called SS trust fund (which is about $4T) is actually included in the $14.3T debt. The debt held by public is actually a little less than $10T.

    Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

    For this reason, people that wish to assert that the debt is $14.3T can not also assert that social security is insolvent as just stating that the debt is $14.3T is also saying that the so-called trust fund as more than $4T in equity.

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