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Thread: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

  1. #111
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    No, I asked for a Democrcat who's a member of the Socialist Party.
    Already provided - but keep asking, even though it's a weak way to avoid answering.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Creating a strawman so you can beat it up doesn't help your position. I never said because it's a political party in Florida means it's applicable everywhere, I said that the Tea Party can register as a political party in every state, just like they did in Florida.
    So you admit the Tea Party isn't a political party. Excellent!


    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Hmm, but weren't you saying those aren't real "Tea Partiers," that they're really Democrats. So the only Tea Partiers in the entire country with stones to run as Tea Partiers are in one state and they're former Democrats? Is that right?
    I never said any such thing... I believe I posted a correction to your misinformation that Frank O'Neal was a Republican and as a by product, showed that Fran O'Neal (a Democrat) started the Tea Party movement (or one of them) in Florida. Let me educate you: The Tea Party around the country are separate and independent. There is no centralized management or party leadership. Democrats, Independents and Republicans all are part of the Tea Party ... also called Diversification.

    Common sense doesn't have a party affiliation, hence the Tea Party is open to and has membership of anyone who shares their policy views. Perhaps you should go to a local meeting and see it for yourself.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #112
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Of course it was a dodge, it was a nonsensical answer you gave to my post.
    To be frank, it's difficult to answer your posts as all of them tend to be nonsensical.... and it's very difficult to bring a logical, methodical discussion normally.
    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    It's quit possible I know something you don't.
    I'm sure you do, whether or not it's relevant or not is the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Debt is a function of two things: spending and income. So you need to show where all of the debt incurred since he became president is spending.
    That's a strawman, as I've never claimed all the debt incurred from one President. What I have said in various threads is that this President has taken the GW Bush spending and turned it up 2 notches and in many ways has extended the spending spree beyond the TARP level into the stupidity level. Given this economic 2 1/2 years his spending isn't just reckless as it normally would be, it's downright dangerous. The obligated debt of the United States is (depending on who and what sources provide it) between 50 Trillion and 62 Trillion dollars. That's money already spent.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Also, if the debt was as bad as conservatives say it is, how come nations buy our debt at historically low interest rates?
    They buy it because those nations still have confidence that America can pay it back, and if we cannot then provide other resources, agreements, treatises, etc., to make up the difference.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #113
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    amazing how you don't actually respond to what's written, but think that you have posted a point. we aren't saying it's wrong of him to cut Defense. we are saying it's wrong of him to want to claim credit for cutting spending we were never going to engage in.
    But we are engaged in it (Re: Afghanistan) and will be for a long time much as we are in Korea and Vietnam today. Oh, it won't be an indefinite military presence, but we will be involved in the rebuilding of Afghanistan and Iraq for some time. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just fooling themselves.

    America and NATO/coalition forces will draw down significantly in both countries. Fact is, we and Europeans detest prolonged warfare. It's just not in our blood...er, um...character to be so heavily engaged in prolonged fighting especially when it's hand-to-hand/close quarters combat. But that aside, Afghanistan and Iraq are in a mess - a mess we either helped create and/or were full participants in. Just as after WWII in the rebuilding of both Germany and Japan, we have a responsibility as a nation that prides itself on humanitarianism to help get these countries back on their feet - like it or not. So, we will be involved in Iraq and Afghanistan for some time. Call it...a silent form of nation building because in a few years most Americans won't give either country a second thought. But the governments of all nations involved will remember and won't let the next president nor his/her successors forget until these nations are rebuilt.

  4. #114
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    No, I asked for a Democrcat who's a member of the Socialist Party.

    I always chuckle at this...

    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #115
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That's a strawman, as I've never claimed all the debt incurred from one President. What I have said in various threads is that this President has taken the GW Bush spending and turned it up 2 notches and in many ways has extended the spending spree beyond the TARP level into the stupidity level. Given this economic 2 1/2 years his spending isn't just reckless as it normally would be, it's downright dangerous. The obligated debt of the United States is (depending on who and what sources provide it) between 50 Trillion and 62 Trillion dollars. That's money already spent.
    This is not a strawman, Republicans, conservatives and YOU are blaming Obama for the $4 trillion added to the debt since he became president. Obama had the Stimulus and troop surge in Afghanistan, so where are the two notches you speak of????


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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The fact that tea party types have to run as a Republican rather than honestly build a true political party and call it the Tea Party, is simply evidence of how disingenuous they are and how they only want short term power and have no real interest in building a real political party. I would say the same for libertarians like both Pauls who despite their status and the official pin-up boys for libertarianism, run as Republicans. I guess a run on the Libertarian ticket for President and getting his clocked cleaned taught Ron Paul the lesson of his life.


    the tea party is a movement, not a political party, this is a known. I don't think trying to mold it into something someone who doesnt support it wants it to be is a good argument.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #117
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    This is not a strawman, Republicans, conservatives and YOU are blaming Obama for the $4 trillion added to the debt since he became president.
    You're right, it's a vast generalization applied to anyone who calls themselves a Conservative or Republican. That's MUCH better than a strawman.

    I still never claimed that. You might, just might want to stop treating everyone you don't agree with the same and start treating them as individuals. Even though YOU may live up to the progressive liberal ideal and stereotype, doesn't mean all Republicans and Conservatives are like you. Just a tip there for ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Obama had the Stimulus and troop surge in Afghanistan, so where are the two notches you speak of????
    Let's see list the Obama Spend-O Rama is the challenge huh? Okay...

    TALF/PPIP
    Obama Care
    Continuing Afghanistan, Iraq and opening up a 3rd "non-hostile" war with Libya

    Hmm... didn't Obama say and vote against these types of wars when he was in the Senate.

    But it's all here... in the 2012 Budget. You remember this don't you Petey - it's the one which got a 97 nay and 0 yea vote in the Senate? Somehow I don't see the amount of spending going down... but it's going up.
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Overview/
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #118
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Post-ABC poll: GOP too dug in on debt talks; public fears default consequences - The Washington Post

    According to this poll, most Americans think both sides are full of ****.

    Majorities of Americans see both President Obama and congressional Republicans as not willing enough to compromise in their budget negotiations,


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  9. #119
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    Already provided - but keep asking, even though it's a weak way to avoid answering.
    No, you provided a list of Democrats whose names appeared on a list on Democratic Socialists of America (no evidence they are or were even members of that organization). I asked you to name Democrats who are members of the Socialist Party. Do you know the difference between Democratic Socialists of America and the Socialist Party? Also, the list you gave is titled, "Members of the Progressive Caucus." That doesn't make them Socialist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    So you admit the Tea Party isn't a political party. Excellent!
    It is in Florida.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post

    Hmm, but weren't you saying those aren't real "Tea Partiers," that they're really Democrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    I never said any such thing...
    Really? Then who posted this to me ...

    “The recent flurry of last minute filings by so –called “tea party candidates” looks awfully suspicious,” said GOP Chairman John Thrasher in a statement. “While a few tea-party candidates across the state do have ties to the tea party movement, in the majority of instances, it appears that the Democrats have coordinated a dishonest attempt to hide phony candidates behind the name “tea party” and to confuse voters who may be supportive of the tea party movement, effectively stealing votes from true conservative candidates and injuring the grassroots tea party movement as a whole.”

    ... if not you?

  10. #120
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You're right, it's a vast generalization applied to anyone who calls themselves a Conservative or Republican. That's MUCH better than a strawman.

    I still never claimed that. You might, just might want to stop treating everyone you don't agree with the same and start treating them as individuals. Even though YOU may live up to the progressive liberal ideal and stereotype, doesn't mean all Republicans and Conservatives are like you. Just a tip there for ya.
    I said Republicans and conservative, I never said all of them.


    Let's see list the Obama Spend-O Rama is the challenge huh? Okay...

    TALF/PPIP
    Obama Care
    Continuing Afghanistan, Iraq and opening up a 3rd "non-hostile" war with Libya
    Care to put price tags on these? Since expenditures for "ObamaCare" doesn't start for a couple of years, you'll find a goose egg in that column now.


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